Indians and Racism

by Sharell शारेल on May 19, 2009

in Culture Shock in India

You may have heard of a recent incident at Paris airport, where a group of Indian passengers filed a racism complaint against Air France. The reason? Apparently, non-Indian passengers were put up in hotels following a long flight delay, while Indian passengers were not. They had to wait in the airport lounge without food and water for quite a while.

Of course, it’s unacceptable that people should be treated differently because of their ethnic background and skin colour.

However, in a recent column of the Hindustan Times Cafe newspaper, Anoushka Shankar (daughter of acclaimed musician Ravi) raised the issue of racist behaviour by Indians themselves. She stated that she considered Indians to be, on the whole, a fairly racist group of people.

Some of her reasons, which were mostly centred around skin colour, were as follows:

  • In the event of an Indian falling in love with a foreigner, the Indian parents would prefer the foreigner to be white rather than black.
  • Where else in the world do matrimonial ads place so much importance on skin colour?
  • Foreigners have to pay a higher ticket price to enter monuments and other places of interest in India.
  • The Indian media constantly propagates the concept of white women being easy or loose. Female tourists, especially blondes, are constantly bothered by Indian men who assume that they can take advantage of them because they’re white.
  • So many people in northern India constantly make fun of people in the south, and have little understanding of their culture, language and customs.
  • The use of fairness creams is rampant amongst Indians, desperate to make their skin colour lighter because it’s perceived as being more attractive.

According to Anoushka, it’s well and good that Indians stand up for their own rights of equality. However, they also need to open their eyes to the fact that they don’t always offer the same equality to everyone else.

What do you think? I feel she raises some very good points.

As a white person living in India, I’m all too well aware of the impact of the colour of my skin, as I alluded to in my post The Difficulty of Being Married to an Indian.

I’m very fair, and I’m often commenting to Indian people that I would like my skin to be browner. Their reply is invariably, “no, we want skin like yours!”. Even my husband, who’s arms have gone a darker shade of brown in the summer sun, is concerned that I might not find him as attractive. He’s not adverse to using fairness cream either!

As for racism, in my experience, Indians from the south are just as racist towards other Indians as their northern counterparts.

My husband and I lived in Varkala (a small beach tourist town in Kerala) for 8 months. He soon discovered that it was like living in a whole different country, rather than a state. The locals didn’t look favorably on any Indians who didn’t speak Malayalam (the local language). In fact, my husband was once asked by a shopkeeper if he spoke Malayalam. When he said no, only Hindi, the shopkeeper refused to serve him. This may sound unbelievable, but it was true!

Are Indians really like that only?

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Abdullah K. June 24, 2010 at 12:41 pm

@ Charie Daviston – “I think the way groups of people are portrayed is a serious issue and should not be taken lightly.”

It is India, Ms. Daviston, not the United States. The Indian portrayal of blacks is just plain humour, no more serious than how ethnic groups of Indians make fun of each other. Or how foreigners are made jokes of in your country.
 
As for rental properties, have you ever tried getting a rental property in India? Landlords have so many “rules” that it would be easier to find residence at a monastry. Its not a black thing.

Sharrell's Celebrity Doppleganger June 25, 2010 at 11:00 am

LOL @ Howard Stern doing Indian Call Center Spoof. LOL!!! Their accents are so bad and they don’t sound Indian at all, but if you listen to the whole thing there are moments, just moments, when they get the “asli Desi sound” down! LOL! Loved it! I love un-politically-correct ethnic jokes/humor.

Abdullah K. June 25, 2010 at 2:15 pm

Spoof humour is, I think, is the best way to diffuse xenophobia. It is difficult to hate people that you find funny and silly.
 
There is this comedian, Mikhail Zadornov, famous for his true-to-life anecdotes on the naivette and dumbness of Americans.

Abdullah K. June 25, 2010 at 2:24 pm

contd…
His jokes help diffuse those tensed times when American tourists and expats were often attacked by skinhead nationalists for being percieved as paedophiles.

Sharrell's Celebrity Doppleganger June 25, 2010 at 10:04 pm

Americans will be the first to make fun of ourselves. We do it all the time. Not taking oneself so seriously is the sign of great confidence and security in one’s identity. Charie, I clicked on the link you provided regarding the Indian TV add that made fun of African people but it is no longer functioning. Got anything else?

I wouldn’t worry about your upcoming trip to India though.

Indians are all shades of brown, Africans are all shades of brown.

Most Indians have brown or black eyes, most Africans have brown or black eyes.

Most Indians have dark brown or black hair, most Africans have dark brown or black hair.

Don a sari and you will blend right in. Heck, you can even tell people you’re an NRI, but to get local prices and not be over-charged – learn some lines in the language of the region you will be visiting and just pass yourself off as a local.

Have fun! India is awesome and frustrating simultaneously. If you’re not crazy going in, you’ll be crazy coming out. But that’s what we love about INCREDIBLE INDIA!

Like no place on Earth – literally.

Someone May 4, 2011 at 10:06 pm

Yes, virtually anyone of any shade can pass off as Indian in India. I have seen white, mongolian and black Indians, and all other mixes. Though I will not deny that darker Indians are more common than the Indians who look completely Caucasian. However, even the latter are very much a part of India.

Sharrell's Celebrity Doppleganger June 25, 2010 at 10:38 pm

Hindu Trinidadian Prime Minister takes oath on Bhagavad Gita:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/world/south_asia/10341771.stm

Abdullah K. June 26, 2010 at 1:02 am

@ Sharrell’s Celebrity Doppleganger – “Americans will be the first to make fun of ourselves. We do it all the time.”

Not really. If a joke is against Americans as a culture or nation, Americans are the most insecure people around. Especially if it is anecdotal or close to reality. They’d joke about other cultures or nations, but when the joke is on them, they take offense and cry “anti-Americanism”. I have witnessed it too many times to be fooled to believe otherwise.

Amit Desai June 26, 2010 at 2:42 am

@ Charie Daviston, “…Jokes and name-calling often have hidden meanings and is a way to demean others in a way that is not too offensive…”

This is the way of life everywhere. It’s human nature to discriminate or differentiate and build upon that discrimination in one way or the other.

@ Sharrell’s Celebrity Doppleganger, “…Indians are all shades of brown, Africans are all shades of brown. Most Indians have brown or black eyes, most Africans have brown or black eyes. Most Indians have dark brown or black hair, most Africans have dark brown or black hair….”

Up to 85% of the people in the world have different shades of black to brown skin, eyes, and hair with majority of Africans being the only group with darkest shade of black skin.

Sharrell's Celebrity Doppleganger June 26, 2010 at 5:16 am

“Up to 85% of the people in the world have different shades of black to brown skin, eyes, and hair with majority of Africans being the only group with darkest shade of black skin.”

Exactly why Black African Americans will blend into India much more easily than White Euro Americans.

Amit Desai June 26, 2010 at 7:07 am

@ Sharrell’s Celebrity Doppleganger, “…Exactly why Black African Americans will blend into India much more easily than White Euro Americans…”

This is exactly why your black boyfriend was discriminated (in your words) when you went to India with him. He must have blended into Indians easily in order to be singled out, ey!

Charie Daviston June 26, 2010 at 11:41 am

Racial Discrimination at Delhi University?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qIZgcVEICxA

Abdullah K. June 26, 2010 at 6:57 pm

What are you talking about, Mr. Desai? Doppleganger is no longer an American-Indian woman with a black boyfriend. She has mutated to a white women who recently got a divorce from her Indian husband.

Sharrell's Celebrity Doppleganger June 27, 2010 at 3:33 am

(Well, I’m a bit of all of that Abdullah. Dated black guys both before AND after the Desi Divorce.)

American Poverty Tourism (it doesn’t just happen in India)

A San Francisco travel agency’s plans for a nine-day tour of the “Third World in America” has angered directors of tourism in the Appalachian region. For $500, the agency Global Exchange will take customers on an excursion through Virginia, West Virginia and Tennessee June 17-25 to see impoverished families, crumbling coal mining towns and streams strewn with discarded appliances and other junk. “I suggest that those folks could save a lot of money and get a great dose of third-world reality simply by walking through the barrio in Los Angeles,” said John Brown, Commissioner of Commerce of West Virginia.

Global Exchange says it specializes in awareness tours to countries like Haiti, the Dominican Republic and Brazil. The Appalachian tour will be the agency’s first domestic trip. “What brings a place alive and what makes it so interesting are the people who live there and the problems they’re confronting,” said the tour coordinator, Laurie Adams. Ms. Adams said her clients were usually students, community volunteers and government officials interested in meeting people who are trying to solve social and environmental problems.

Don Wick, director of information for the Tennessee Department of Tourism Development, said he was afraid the tour would reinforce stereotypes. He said the “real South” included the “sophisticated and prosperous” cities of Nashville, Knoxville and Chattanooga. Cindy Ford, spokeswoman for the Nashville Chamber of Commerce, said: “If you’re looking for poverty and environmental problems, yes, you can find them in our three states. But I don’t think we have any more problems than any other state.”

Abdullah K. June 27, 2010 at 11:06 am

@ Sharrell’s Celebrity Doppleganger – “(Well, I’m a bit of all of that Abdullah. Dated black guys both before AND after the Desi Divorce.)”

I see. I guess people of Indian ethnicities becoming whites is a normal thing in United States. Must be some new technological breakthrough…
 

@ Sharrell’s Celebrity Doppleganger – “American Poverty Tourism (it doesn’t just happen in India)”

Ever heard of a thing called “Slum Tour”. I bet you didn’t, after all you have to be in India for real to hear of such a thing.

Abhinav July 30, 2010 at 3:54 pm

This post is exactly what I was talking about. Mentality that is taught and developed in an Indian mind is rather racist and disturbing. Compared to Indians, I find people in America more civilized and accepting. It took me some time to find my roots and broaden perspective. India is a small world within itself and there are all shades of brown. It is hard to break free from something that’s taught to one since childhood. Media further perpetrates and strengthens beauty of lighter skin. Hope future generation changes norm and builds a more accepting, unified and holistic society.

raghav October 8, 2010 at 5:37 am

Well, racism does exist in India. The most important thing is many people don’t even realize that they are racists as society accepts many things ‘commonly’.

For example, I consider my parents to be fairly open-minded and well-educated individuals. My view about my father changed a bit after this incident.

Once i had a south indian female friend invited to my place, who is couple of shades darker. While having dinner, i told my parents that i am gonna marry her (very jokingly as she is a good friend).

But my father said afterwards, ”i will not appreciate you getting married to such a dark gal. This is what i have to say, you can do whatever you want. What will ppl. say”? He went on further to say, ”we have no probs. you getting married to a Gori” and i must mention i live abroad.

Emotionally, i was so confused that he is okay with me marrying a gori but
not a darker indian.

Well, the man in Kerela not serving, i must admit that is exceptional. I have never been in such a situation in India or known somebody who was treated like that. This is very un- INDIAN.

@ Sharrel
You rock and it is always refreshing to have a perspective of India from a
person who chooses to live here.

Sharell October 8, 2010 at 9:22 am

Hi Raghav, very interesting story! Thanks for sharing. Amazing that your dad would prefer you to marry a white foreigner rather than a dark Indian!

Manny October 24, 2010 at 8:24 pm

Anushka shanker is the typical far lefti racist with a cover story for her own prejudices.

In India, if you notice, the leftists who speak against castism and racism etc are generally the biggest racists. They often put on this charade as a cover for their own inadequacy. Anushka Shanker and her own father Ravi always had affairs with white people. You don’t see any of their family members dating a “dalit” or whatever.

The leftist trash like The Hindu newspaper and other bengali leftist newspapers are often owned and run by upper caste people who rail against castism and racism. But on closer scrutiny you would notice in their personal life they would have a pure caste family. So is in the Indira Gandhi Family.

Same here in the US. the lefty liberal kennedy family is all lilly white. the often maligned conservative republicans like Bush or Mc Cain have family members from other non white races.

Its an interesting phenomena. :)

Manny October 25, 2010 at 1:04 am

Let me address each of Anushka’s issues.

* In the event of an Indian falling in love with a foreigner, the Indian parents would prefer the foreigner to be white rather than black.

My comment: She is obviously speaking from her own experience of her own racist family who have no Indian values. Her father left a single mother with her child alone in Texas and went home like a coward and married a “nice hindu woman 30 years younger to take care of him like a maid”. Anushka herself dates a white guy. I don’t know any of her close family member married to a Dalit or a Black guy.

* Where else in the world do matrimonial ads place so much importance on skin colour?

My comment: She is obviously clueless to see dating ads on western magazine (I often see this in the US) where SWF looking for SWM. i.e Single white female looking for Single white male.. WTF is that? How is that any different Anushka?

* Foreigners have to pay a higher ticket price to enter monuments and other places of interest in India.

My comment: When you go to school as a foreigner in the US, when you apply for a scholarships, the first question is “Are you a citizen”. If no, REJECT! Foreigners pay full tution! DUH! Moreoever, if you see the earning of Indians vs most foreign countries, this is only fair. I understand for foreigners who work in India this may not be fair. But still, this is not unusual or even racist!

* The Indian media constantly propagates the concept of white women being easy or loose. Female tourists, especially blondes, are constantly bothered by Indian men who assume that they can take advantage of them because they’re white.

My comment: The India Media for the most part is Lefty trash.

* So many people in northern India constantly make fun of people in the south, and have little understanding of their culture, language and customs.

My comment: I often read and see Bengalies trash people from other states of India like only the Bengalies are liberal and act so uppity and look down on other Indians.

* The use of fairness creams is rampant amongst Indians, desperate to make their skin colour lighter because it’s perceived as being more attractive.

My comment: How is this any less than pale white women tanning? Duh!

:)

Gem October 25, 2010 at 4:35 am

Hi Sharell,
Nice post. Indeed India is the most racist country in the world!! Infact I myself was victim of racism while I was working in Kerala. I worked there for 2 yrs and each day I spent there didn’t pass without some1 asking me whether I’m North Indian. It was really shocking for me. Even few restaurant menu had 3 sections – North Indian food, chinese food and Kerala food (as if Kerala is not part of India !!).
And yes in Varkala we (me and few of my non-malayalam speaking friends) had similar or I think worst experience. My frnds were not allowed to enter the beach near the co-conut grove (just at the end of cliff-otherend). The cop and life guard told us Indians are not allowed on that beach !! It was shocking for us and we could not react just coz we didn’t know to speak in Malayalam. Indians are not allowed on Indian soil !! We also later found that many of the restaurant’s indulge in Drug trade. especially the restaurant with a dwarf guy and a guy with dread-locks..

Regards,
Gem

Sharell October 25, 2010 at 2:09 pm

especially the restaurant with a dwarf guy and a guy with dread-locks..

Hi Gem, that sounds just awful about your Varkala experience. It’s really unfortunate. I agree that people should be given a chance first and only disciplined if they misbehave. I remember the dwarf guy…. he worked at Funky Art Cafe when I was there! He used to get drunk and dance on tables.

Gem October 25, 2010 at 4:39 am

It is understood that some Indians (especially young college crowd or uneducated people) misbehave when they see girls (especially white girls) on the beach in skimpy cloths. This should not be the reason to block all Indians from entering any beach.If some1 misbehaves they should discipline them instead of stereotyping and banning every Indian their constitutional right by not allowing at a public place !!

Manny October 26, 2010 at 3:28 am

I’ll tell you whats racist! Its obvious some of you have forgotten what racism is.

Ethnically cleansing American Indians
Slavery
Lynchings
Jim Crowe
The Holocaust due to Martin Luther’s lunatic rantings.
Even after living together for 300 years as christians Whites and blacks hardly marrying one another.

Saathi November 13, 2010 at 10:11 am

It’s an eye opener of an atricle written by sitar player Anoushka Shankar, and we can conclude from this that Indian are non patriotic also at-least M’s Shankar is, who instead of standing for her fellow contrymen is accusing them at being racist and in a sense patronising the French people and justifing their action. Bravo! Anoushka Shankar. Our politicians would also like to have your expert opnion regarding our foreign policies, finance, defence, etc.

Sunil December 5, 2010 at 4:53 pm

Yeah, im originally from Tamil Nadu, just moved to Mumbai. I have a lot of Punjabi friends, and I don’t know if its a trait of Punjabi’s, but MAN they bug me to hell by calling me kaalawaala. that really sucks. i hate it. Indians are hypocrites. I would like to go back to the US asap, because while racism exists there, its just not at pronounced. thats unbelievable, but true.

Kushal December 9, 2010 at 2:53 pm

Well,Anoushka has made some really important points which ‘re absolutely true.Indians just behave as if they are really open and broadminded,but bullshit,that’s totally rubbish.I mean look at the Matrimonial ads in various websites and newspapers,the way they’re presented.They look absolutely pathetic.Its a good example to prove the racist nature of Indians.

Angela January 27, 2011 at 12:12 am

this whole black white brown categorizing people is ridiculous ..just because some people are empty headed losers with nothing better to do in their life than being racist …does not mean others have to follow or more importantly be quiet about it. Its time the each one of us set things straight as and when we encounter such situation. Maybe one person and single incidents cannot change but together they will make a difference. Its anyday better than being quiet.

Mohit Gupta January 27, 2011 at 4:31 am

Yes.

Lets change it. I follow you.
God made this Earth for all.Share it not bare it. :)

Amit Desai January 28, 2011 at 4:13 am

Angela,

I can’t stand racist people and am totally against racism, (though, I am not against any racism other than my own)!
:-P

siva January 27, 2011 at 4:39 am

well, beiing a tamilian, i kno very vell about the obsession of fair skin, but i would not classify it as rascism, since u can be fairskinned and look like an italian where as ur fullblooded brother looks darker than someone from Kongo. I dont know whats goin up in the north, but a mother would not love her darkskinned child less than its fairskinned brother. Its not actually rascism as long its in the same community, its like gingerism ^^

Human April 20, 2011 at 12:14 am

Here’s few more questions I would like to add to Anoushka’s list:

*How often you see any dark skinned Indian fashion model?

*How often you see a dark skinned steward in Indian owned Airline
companies?

*Why do most Indian Bollywood actresses are very pale and European/Middle-east looking ? (Aishwarya Rai, Kareena Kapoor to name a few)

*Why do Indian directors hire white female to dance in the background with Indian actor/actresses (Seen in most of the commercial/Indian dance shots)

*Why do we have white girls(foreigners) as cheerleaders at IPL? (Here’s some thing interesting you: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2007056/Indian-Premier-League-British-cheerleaders-banned-for-being-black.html)

*How come none of the Tamil actresses are dark when majority of the people in Tamil are dark and why do most Telugu/Tamil/Kannada directors hire north Indian actresses in their films who cannot even speak the local language?

Manny April 20, 2011 at 4:25 am

How many dark skinned Indians were lynched by fair skinned Indians?

Amit Desai April 20, 2011 at 12:29 pm

Q1: How often you see any dark skinned Indian fashion model?

A1: Even if you ask for a dark-skinned model, you would get a bunch of tanned-to-death-white-caucasian-looking-ladies. Below is the joke, I mean, example.

http://www.fabsugar.com/Vogue-India-Features-Darker-Skinned-Models-April-Cover-8087248

Q2: How often you see a dark skinned steward in Indian owned Airline
companies?

A2: Never? May be they all use fair and lovely?

Q3: Why do most Indian Bollywood actresses are very pale and European/Middle-east looking ?

A3: Make-up gives magical results.

Q4: Why do Indian directors hire white female to dance in the background with Indian actor/actresses?

A4: Because white males can’t or don’t want to dance.

Q5: Why do we have white girls(foreigners) as cheerleaders at IPL?

A5: Economics/market-value. For similar reasons we have white/foreigner males as trainers, advisors, cricket coach, physio etc?

Q6: How come none of the Tamil actresses are dark when majority of the people in Tamil are dark?

A6: See A3.

Q7: why do most Telugu/Tamil/Kannada directors hire north Indian actresses in their films who cannot even speak the local language?

A7: See A5.

Human April 20, 2011 at 1:06 am

Would also recommend you to watch this film should you get time… http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0102456/plotsummary

Manny April 20, 2011 at 4:46 am

You think that story would have been different if the man was fair skinned white person? You think that Guju family in that story would have jumped with joy cause a fair skinned person is joining the Guju klan?

G

Human April 20, 2011 at 7:55 am

Why not? I have seen umpteen Guju guys and girls marrying white guys but none I knew married a black man or women. How come? You sound very naive ! Come-on Manny you can fool others but you cannot fool yourself… I know for sure you feel that guilt feeling somewhere deep inside, try and ask your subconscious!

Look at the “TheArchitect” is in the same dilemma as Sharell… These racist debates about Indians are rotten everywhere online…

http://www.topix.com/forum/world/india/TBI601AH1TDCQ34KA

I understand you don’t like Indians being called by as racists… neither do I but denying the truth is fooling yourself!

Manny April 20, 2011 at 4:37 am

Here is an interesting article.

How Evangelists Invented ‘Dravidian Christianity’

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/rajiv-malhotra/how-evangelists-are-inven_b_841606.html

In south India, a new identity called Dravidian Christianity is being constructed. It is an opportunistic combination of two myths: the “Dravidian race” myth and another that purports that early Christianity shaped the major Hindu classics!

The discredited Aryan race theory was discussed in my previous blog. Its counterpoint is the “Dravidian” race theory. Both constructs are equally damaging and have been proven false. The “Dravidians,” the theory goes, were the original inhabitants of the Indian subcontinent and were driven to southern India by the invading, lighter skinned and racially different “Aryans.”

While there is no mainstream “Aryan” political party in India, the Dravidianization of mainstream identity in the southern state of Tamil Nadu keeps the pernicious pair alive. The Aryan/Dravidian constructs are mutually dependent, and have been very successfully used to generate conflict, including violence (as in Sri Lanka in recent years).

The Dravidian race theory originated in 19th century European scholarship when colonial and evangelical interests used linguistics and ethnic studies to formulate imaginary histories and races. While European scholars were busy appropriating the Sanskrit classics as the heritage of Europeans, British linguists Francis Ellis and Alexander Campbell worked in India to theorize that the south Indian languages belong to a different family than the north Indian ones. Meanwhile, another colonial scholar, Brian Houghton Hodgson, was promoting the term “Tamulian” as a racial construct, describing the so-called aborigines of India as primitive and uncivilized compared to the “foreign Aryans.”

TAMASHA! April 20, 2011 at 3:19 pm

Manny-
What exactly is this supposed to prove?
I really don’t see how casteism or colorism in India is any better or worse than racism or slavery in the US.
Please don’t forget to mention that without CHRISTIAN ABOLITIONISTS there would most likely still be slavery.
Please don’t forget to mention without CHRISTIAN ALLIES who knows when or if the Holocaust ever would have ended.
Please don’t forget to mention the US has a BLACK PRESIDENT.
What a warped and slanted view of history you have.

Manny April 20, 2011 at 6:23 pm

What its supposed to show Tamasha and “Human” is, although Indians are no angels, there is a degree to everything. Overall what Indians have done and are doing even today is a very lite version of racism. I would say, Indians are more ethnocentric rather than racists to a large extent. It’s not about race really for Indians. It’s more about culture and subculture and preservation of their own sub culture. But they do not go around physically harming other sub cultures. Its no different than the Amish in western Pennsylvania going on their own and living by themselves. Race is a very small part in addition region, language, caste, and so many other things. The Liberal Lefty in India love to do moral relativism and self flagellation. Indians have lots of issues, but not all Issues of the west/Christianity is automatically the issues in India.

Tamasha, as for christians being the cause of anti slavery is bull. The Bible was used to justify slavery. Yes there were a few denomination of chritistians who were the abolitionists like the Quakers. and yes, Quakers have generally been moral all along history. But guess what. Quakers are non evangelicals and the mainstream Southern Baptists do not even consider Quakers as Christians.

And please don’t even go there to Holocaust. I don’t want to use Sharell’s blog for a debate on that issue for it would take a lot of space. Except I’ll say this for now. Christianity was central and fundamental to the Holocaust. It was Martin Luther the founder of protestant christianity with this book titled “Jews and their lies” that was the impetus for the Holocaust. Even if you prove that Hitler was not a christian (Many in the US are trying to rewrite history) then you would have to prove the entire country of Germany were also not christians. In the book “Hitlers Willing executioners” its very well documented how ordinary Germans and even Polish participated. Also look up “Blood Libel” in wiki to understand the kind of evil of the Goliath to go after a very very very small tribe of people. Sorry , India has not seen anything like it in the last 4000 years. Indians have been at the receiving end to some extend when the Islamic hordes came in with the sword to convert Hindus in its history.

Manny April 20, 2011 at 6:32 pm

Here you go, if you think Christianity has nothing to do with the Holocaust.

http://www.nobeliefs.com/nazis.htm

http://www.nobeliefs.com/luther.htm

TAMASHA! April 21, 2011 at 1:51 pm

@Manny-
READ & COMPREHEND MY POST !!!!
Kindly point out WHERE I STATED that ‘Christianity has nothing to do with the Holocaust’- NOWHERE! DUH!
I AM SIMPLY ASKING YOU TO STATE A BALANCED VIEW OF THE FACTS.
Get a clue, yes some Christians notably Lutherans & Roman Catholics supported Nazism but does that mean MOTHER TERESA WAS A NAZI?
Many Christians including Mennonites (my relatives) & the oft maligned Jehovah’s Witnesses VEHEMENTLY OPPOSED NAZISM & paid the ULTIMATE PRICE. So I am UNDERSTANDABLY OFFENDED BY YOUR RELIGIOUS BIGOTRY.
As for antisemitism & blood libel it started along time before Christianity:Roman Emperor Claudius is recorded has having described the Jews as a people who spread “a great plague throughout the world.” Apion, one of the most famous of the ancient anti-Semites, believed that the Jews drank the blood of gentile children – a charge which would be repeated by Christians during the Middle Ages. One might wonder if there is something especially taboo about the drinking of blood, such that it is a handy accusation to make against any hated group.

As far as slavery goes if you have any knowledge of the Jewish Talmud, Tanakh, Torah, the Christian Bible or the Muslim Koran you’d know slavery is no more a ‘Christian issue’ than a Jewish or an Muslim Issue.
As far as non-Quaker abolitionists go here’s a list-the effects of the Second Great Awakening resulted in many evangelicals working to see the theoretical Christian view, that all people are essentially equal, made more of a practical reality. Freedom of expression within the Western world also helped in enabling opportunity to express their position. Prominent among these abolitionists was Parliamentarian William Wilberforce in England, who wrote in his diary when he was 28 that, “God Almighty has set before me two great objects, the suppression of the Slave Trade” With others he labored, against much determined opposition, to finally abolish the British slave trade. The famous English preacher Charles Spurgeon had some of his sermons burned in America due to his censure of slavery, calling it “the foulest blot” and which “may have to be washed out in blood.” Methodist founder John Wesley denounced human bondage as “the sum of all villainies,” and detailed its abuses. In Georgia, primitive Methodists united with brethren elsewhere in condemning slavery. Many evangelical leaders in the United States such as Presbyterian Charles Finney and Theodore Weld, and women such as Harriet Beecher Stowe (daughter of abolitionist Lyman Beecher) and Sojourner Truth motivated hearers to support abolition. Finney preached that slavery was a moral sin, and so supported its elimination. “I had made up my mind on the question of slavery, and was exceedingly anxious to arouse public attention to the subject. In my prayers and preaching, I so often alluded to slavery, and denounced it. Repentance from slavery was required of souls, once enlightened of the subject, while continued support of the system incurred the greatest guilt upon them.”
In case you haven’t noticed the modern term for slavery is HUMAN TRAFFICKING- An estimated 20 to 65 million Indians are trafficked for purposes of forced labor & commercial sexual exploitation. Mostly FEMALE. Mostly CHILDREN. Mostly DALITS. Token laws that are rarely enforced are on the books. This practice of human flesh being bought & sold has gone on for 100′s maybe 1,000′s of years.
I don’t think this is anything to be proud of.
Should I call this a ‘Hindu issue’?

prashanth April 21, 2011 at 2:57 pm

Well said, Tamasha!

Manny April 21, 2011 at 6:57 pm

The way I see the world Tamasha, The vast majority of people whether they are Christians or Muslims or Hindus or whatever are regular decent people. I’d say 70-80% of the people of the world no matter their religion they are ok. They are more busy living in this world and taking care of their loved ones than messing with others.

But when it comes to the other 20%, it depends on what theological doctrine they are indoctrinated with since childhood, If its evangelical Christianity, IMO, they are worse than AQ. Their propensity to take the worst of their scripture to intrude on others like they are the caretakers of God himself goes on even today. Take north east India (Nagaland, Mizoram etc) for e.g. They were mostly tribels. Hindus generally never went there and messed with them in stark contrast to tribels in South America and Latin America etc. Yet, when the American Southern Baptists evangelicals surreptitiously ended up there they converted them and today its 90% Baptist. They have made that place into a theological state. Hindus and Muslims cannot live there and no national laws can be implemented in the North East because they feel victimized by the “Main land Indians”. WTF..when did anyone victimize them? This is what Baptist evangelicals do all over the world.

To deny Christianities hand in the Anti semitism and the Holocaust and Slavery is like like No true Scotsman fallacy.

TAMASHA! April 22, 2011 at 11:39 am

@Manny-
You are WEASELING Manny.
Why do you not admit you are wrong?
NOWHERE DID I STATE ‘CHRISTIANITY HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE HOLOCAUST’.
NO FUCKING WHERE.
GROW A PAIR.
Say “POINT TAKEN” & DULY NOTE THE SACRIFICES MADE BY MANY CHRISTIANS, JEWS, HINDU, MUSLIMS, & OTHER GROUPS IN PUTTING AN END TO ALL HOLOCAUSTS.
Is that so damned hard?

Manny April 22, 2011 at 6:56 pm

Tamasha. You said “I really don’t see how casteism or colorism in India is any better or worse than racism or slavery in the US.”

That was absolute BS. Big Big difference between slavery and lychings, ethnic cleansing and what you have/had in India.

BIG DIFFERENCE!

TAMASHA! April 23, 2011 at 10:36 am

@Manny-
You wrote:
‘Big Big difference between slavery and lychings, ethnic cleansing and what you have/had in India.”

That is simply YOUR ASSININE BIASED OPINION:
An Avinash Pandey Samar – Research Scholar, Jawaharlal Nehru University, New Delhi wrote & as published in the “Asian Human Rights Commission Journal’-
“Casteism Is Racism ”
Sadly, the Indian caste system has proved itself to be one of the worst, if not the worst, system of social stratification for maintaining and perpetuating social hierarchies. Most probably, humankind has never devised a more comprehensive system of keeping a section of society under perpetual subjugation amidst inhuman conditions. It has never devised a worse way of dehumanising fellow human beings and reducing them to being mere labour force devoid of any dignity leave aside rights. Everything said and done, when it comes to committing atrocities on people, the caste system has proved itself to be far more clinical in brutalising its victims than race and not less.
The argument of the Indian government that caste based discrimination should not be included under the category of racial discrimination because it is making serious progress in the issue by having protective laws and positive discrimination fails miserable in the wake of data produced by its own agencies.
For example, the number of crimes against people belonging to the Scheduled Castes as per records of the National Crime Records Bureau of India, a body of ministry of Home Affairs, went up to 33,615 in 2009, an increase of more than 2 percent from the preceding year. Or the fact that the provisions of the Scheduled Castes and Scheduled Tribes (Prevention of Atrocities) Act does not get applied even in such ghoulish cases of caste based atrocities as in the killing of a Dalit family in Khairlanji while committing brutal rapes on the women speaks volumes about the seriousness of the efforts of the government
The second argument of Indian government, unfortunately backed by a few leading sociologists, was that since ‘race’ is a not a meaningful biological category in India and all attempts of profiling different castes along racial lines have fallen flat. Their claim is that even if caste is based on descent it is entirely different from race.
Even if the discrimination against the Dalits is intra-racial, the consequences for them are no less brutal than that in racism. On a more fundamental level, the lack of ‘scientific’ evidence may prove the absence of ‘race’ in India but not the absence of ‘racism’, an ideological structure based on the belief of superiority of some people because of birth and inferiority of others because of the same! And there is no doubt that this ideology is becoming stronger day by day despite all the attempts of Indian government to put an end to this ‘evil’ practice.
The seriousness of the government on the issue speaks for itself in its acts. After all, the government’s dogged opposition to the inclusion of caste based discrimination does not come out of some failure to understand the ground realities out of sheer ignorance. It reflects the mindset and the psyche of the government and the people manning it. The stand of the government emanates from that pre-modern, barbaric and regressive social structure of caste that rules the country under its democratic façade. A facade that gets exposed more often than not by the deeds of all organs of the state, including its judiciary… ”
Manny-
The number of crimes against people of Scheduled Castes in one year is 33,615? This article goes on to list brutal rapes, gruesome murders, lynchings, and members of Scheduled Castes burnt alive.

As I mentioned in my previous post READ & COMPREHEND:
SLAVERY GOES ON IN INDIA TODAY!!!
The modern term for slavery is HUMAN TRAFFICKING- An estimated 20 to 65 million INDIANS are trafficked for purposes of forced labor & commercial sexual exploitation. Mostly FEMALE. Mostly CHILDREN. Mostly DALITS. Token laws that are rarely enforced are on the books in INDIA. This practice of human flesh being bought & sold has gone on for 100′s maybe 1,000′s of years.
I don’t think this is anything to be proud of.
Should I call this a ‘HINDU ISSUE?’

Amit Desai April 23, 2011 at 1:10 pm

Tamasha, you mean castiesm is racism? You mean all those Dalits were killed/raped by higher castes. You mean Brahmins are equivalent to ‘whites’ and Dalits are equivalent to ‘blacks’? Or you mean Aryan-Nazis are higher-castes and Jews are the lower castes?

Being a Brahmin by birth my self, I’m quite honoured to be compared to the greats, aka whites.

Thank you for the honour, I wouldn’t kill Dalits from now on. Yet, I’ll continue to feel that it’s my duty to civilise those unfortunates by brain-washing, paid-slavery, and privilege-based taxation. And I’ll also continue to dominate and interfere with the lives of Dalits/lower-castes, just like whites continue to interfere with and impose their ‘rightous beliefs’ on other lowly races, I mean, other ‘equal races’? :-P

I’m the white man equivalent of India, bearing the same burden of a white man, woo hoo!!! :-P

TAMASHA! April 23, 2011 at 1:23 pm

@Amit-
READ & COMPREHEND!!!
The article was written by:
Avinash Pandey Samar – Research Scholar, Jawaharlal Nehru University, New Delhi

Amit Desai April 23, 2011 at 1:36 pm

Tamasha, Keep playing the same record of ‘read and comprehend’ to everyone. :-P

Even if that article is not written by you, you still support or believe in that, don’t you?

I can comprehend white Americans much better than I comprehend Indians.

Sharell April 23, 2011 at 1:44 pm

Being a Brahmin by birth my self

A Brahmin AND a Gujarati…. and you have polluted your body so much!! What ever happened to you?! :-P

TAMASHA! April 23, 2011 at 1:53 pm

Amit-

I got the ‘READ & COMPREHEND’ phrase from Sharell. Most Indians seem to have some aversion to reading & or comprehending written English (including my husband).
You wrote:
“Indians just perceive blacks as either violent criminals or equal to lower-castes.”
So what exactly do YOU BELIEVE?
I believe exactly what wrote earlier:
“I really don’t see how casteism or colorism in India is any better or worse than racism or slavery in the US.”
If you would have READ my post & COMPREHENDED my post you would not ask:
“Even if that article is not written by you, you still support or believe in that, don’t you?”

Amit Desai April 23, 2011 at 2:12 pm

Thanks to the complexity of India/Hinduism, One’s caste can equally be based on profession. So I can be whatever I want regardless of what I’m by birth.

This is another distinction between a race and a caste. Race is a psudo-scientific unchangeable inherent quality, while caste is a freer/lose institution for those who know the nature of the caste and race.

Anyway, for the first time, you spelt the term ‘Gujarati’ accurately. :-P

Amit Desai April 23, 2011 at 3:23 pm

In a sense, castism or colorism is better than racism because caste system may have killed 33,615 Dalits, but not 33,615,00,000 Jews. You don’t want to see much difference between casteism and racism because you are a typical white Christian who is against eveything Hindu or Indian, by default.

What do I believe regarding “Blacks being equal to violent criminals or lower-castes”? –

I too belive what I said: “It is the Christians/Americans/whites academics who claimed that blacks are dumb, violent, and had an IQ of monkies. Such beliefs have been passed to Indians through Anglo media combined with the news of robberies of Indian 7-11 store owners by African-Americans.

Amit Desai April 24, 2011 at 12:08 pm

@ Tamasha,

Traditionally, there are 3 major highers castes. But recently, the castes structure have been identified differently, due to the quota system.

Today, all Brahmin castes and vast majority of Baniya castes remain the ‘higher castes’ as they were before. They fall under the so called ‘open category’ – the biggest victims of reverse discrimination. Now the 3rd major castes, Kshatriyas have been spanned over ‘higher castes’ as well as OBC (other backward castes). In other words, many third-rate kshatriyas are now part of lower/backward castes (OBC). They form the highest majority in quota system (up to 60%) followed by traditional lower castes, such as SC and ST (schedule caste and schedule tribe respectively).

So it is very likely that when a Dalit says, she has been raped by a higher caste man, she is infact raped by a member of lower/backward castes who are considered higher than Dalits. Besides, Dalits too have their own hiarchy among themselves.

So for the most part, the real issue here is not so much of caste-system, rather, it is more of an issue of ‘a stronger poor’ exploiting a ‘weaker poor’.

Now those idiots/rebels/anti-Hindus you have been following are merely banging their heads on concrete walls. Such reports/analysis on caste-systems are merely ‘paralysis by analysis’. Everything about caste-system is defined and discussed in India since independence, yet, Indians have hard time implementing/enforcing the solution/laws just like Indians have problems enforcing laws in general.

Manny April 23, 2011 at 7:42 pm

An alleged scholar from JNU. Ha Ha! The bastion of Maoism and communism.

The caste thing, although is nothing to crow about is a crime of giving slight. An insult for the most part.

If a Brahmin man comes in contact with a lower caste such as my self (Yes, I am somewhere in the middle of the totem pole of the caste hierarchy) runs home and takes a bath. That is pretty insulting to me and its even rude. But beyond giving me offense he has done no wrong. Like the Amish Christians who seclude themselves and inter marry within one of their own, the Brahmins do the same. They look down upon all of us who eat dead carcass. I can totally understand that. He has a fundamental right to such thoughts. “Untouchable” means, don’t want to touch.. disassociation. Not lynch , not murder not extert dominion over others.

The way I look at Brahmins, They are less than 3% of Indians. This small minorities like the Jews have saved Hinduism from the predatory Islamists and evangelical christians and other barbaric hordes including communists and Maosits (Although the leadership of communists and Maoists happened to be Brahmins). Also being such small minority, its impossible for them to hold dominion over 97% of the Indians. There has always been consensus of this caste classification in India for the most part. Not that it is a good thing.

And no, the amount of violence within the caste thingi is minuscule compare to christianity and Islamic violence in this world history. I once read a blog about “Dalit Holocaust” and at the end of the article I noticed its an article of how 5 people got murdered by higher caste people.

Sorry..no dice!

BTW.. the same JNU “Intellectuals” were exposed in the the recent Ayodhia verdic where these JNU “Intellectuals” came to court and bore witness that that Islamic Iconoclasm of demolishing temples and other places of worship was a learned behavior of Muslims from Hindus. LOL :)

Manny April 23, 2011 at 7:46 pm

BTW.. I need to look for that article where JNU professors wrote about how the US deserved 911.

Manny April 23, 2011 at 9:07 pm

The three groups of people who cry about the Horrors of the caste system… And full of hyperbole are.

1) Islamists… like the Islamic culture is any better than the caste system. A group that looks at Hindu Kafirs as 1/8th human beings. or That they are incapable of living in a free democratic socity when they reach 51% of the population and implement Sharia laws.

2) Christian evangelicals who have made bigotry into a faith. That unless you accept Jesus as your lord and savior you will burn in hell for eternity and that they have right to convert others into this cult of christian supremacy and divide societies is any better than the caste system.

Although I don’t believe the vast majority of christians believes in this bull.. so no offense to the majority of Muslims and christians.:)

3) Maoists and communists (like those “intellectuals of JNU) . Like their stratification of society were the communist high lords would get to decide what is just and fair and rob Peter to pay Paul and like that has brought justice and fairness in this world and that is any better than the caste system.

Pfft!

:)

TAMASHA! April 23, 2011 at 10:39 pm

@Manny-

Inter caste brutality is so well documented it is ridiculous to deny it. No where did I state BRAHMINS were committing the brutal crimes against DALITS.
NO FUCKING WHERE
There are other castes & you and I both know that.
When I used to do my yearly stint in India in “Doctors Without Borders” as a gynecologist I had to deal with A LOT of RAPE cases, I’d say 80% were Dalit women (ages 5yrs to 72yrs) with the perpetrator being higher caste men. Are you telling me this is in your own words:

“a crime of giving slight. An insult for the most part.”?

Are you kidding me?

You wrote:
‘This small minorities like the Jews have saved Hinduism from the predatory Islamists and evangelical christians and other barbaric hordes including communists and Maosits”

What is that supposed to mean?

Amit Desai April 24, 2011 at 2:35 am

Tamasha,

Higher-castes include 3 major castes, Brahmins, Vaishya (Baniya), and Kshatriya (warriors). Brahmins and Baniya castes are too moralist to rape Dalits. In fact, they wouldn’t even like to touch Dalits. Some Kshatriya castes may get involved in such behavior but can’t be responsible for raping 80 % of the Dalit women you are talking about.

So which higher-caste men did rape your 80% Dalit women?

Manny April 24, 2011 at 3:09 am

Yaar! She said, 80% of the rapes were done by higher castes ( than dalits).. which simply means, Since Dalits are the lowest in the totem pole, any one of the 80% of the population who are higher than dalits could have done it. Even non dalit backward caste could have done it. If a SC rapes an ST, then the ST’s claim that a higher caste raped the victim still falls under Tamasha’s case. ..and note the 20% rapists who are not “higher caste” which means rapes among dalits themselves. All that says is, those Indian rape victims are raped by other Indians. Just like in all societies almost all rapes are dong by their own citizens. That does not show castism as an impetus for the rape…They are simply rape victims. Its really meaningless in as far as trying to make it into a caste thing..

TAMASHA! April 24, 2011 at 10:38 am

@Manny & Amit-
The Kshatriya (such as the Yadav clan) were the usually the rapists.
Manny why do you ASSUME the other 20% are raped by Dalits? Most often the rape victim chose not to name the assailant out of fear so we really do not know.

Amit wrote:
‘Some Kshatriya castes may get involved in such behavior but can’t be responsible for raping 80 % of the Dalit women you are talking about. ”

And what is the reasoning behind this statement?

Amit Desai April 24, 2011 at 11:34 am

@ Tamasha, “…On a more fundamental level, the lack of ‘scientific’ evidence may prove the absence of ‘race’ in India but not the absence of ‘racism’, an ideological structure based on the belief of superiority of some people because of birth and inferiority of others because of the same!…”

‘An ideological structure based on the belief of superiority because of birth’ is already defined as ‘casteism’ in India. Now if you rename the same definition as ‘racism’, is it going to change people’s behaviour? This is no logical than changing the English/Spanish name of Bombay to Mumbai. Did that change the British influence or history in India?

And you believe in such logical JNU grads. Hahaha!

TAMASHA! April 24, 2011 at 12:37 pm

@Amit-
Call it racism, casteism, or whateverism like I wrote:
“I really don’t see how casteism or colorism in India is any better or worse than racism or slavery in the US”

Amit Desai April 24, 2011 at 3:09 pm

The difference between casteism and racism is in “effect, height, and execution of the assumed superior ideology”.

Hitler’s ideologies involved a deep hatred for every weak person who didn’t fit in the “perfect-pure Aryan race” – from women to disable people, nobody was spared in the name of race. Other Western/American ideologies (KKK terrorism for example) derive such hateful ideologies from the Western concept of ‘pure and perfect white race’ and then go on to executing people in a systematic massacre that includes children, women. Have you seen a documented Brahmin terrorism in India? Have you seen a gang of Brahmin patriarchs shooting 500 Dalit children in 2 minutes. (500 punjabi children were killed by a British official in just 2 minutes in Jaliawala massacre of 1919). Japanese attacked pearl harbour, a military camp. And your Americans didn’t think twice before throwing nukes on Japanese civilians that contained women and children who had nothing to do with the military attack. Such was the height of the Western fanaticism, brutality and racism, be that German, British or American.

This is where caste brutality has been much milder. Caste system has surely been discriminatory, but not to the same extent/level as the race-system in the West. Indian Casteism has killed thousands of lower castes at a slower/gradual rate and Western racism has killed millions of Jews, blacks, disables, Indian, Japanase, children, women alike at a much higher rate in a matter of few decades.

Ironic is the fact: The good-looking/beautiful white race has shown the ugliest and dreadful face of the man-kind in first half of the 20th century only (can you imagine how cruel they must have been 2000-5000 years back, can’t you?). The polished/cultured/smarter whites have crossed all the limits of barbarianism and inhumanity by killing children-women of all races in huge numbers. And you are supporting the propagandas of caste brutality when the white race is a synonym of biggest brutalities the man-kind has ever seen? Are you forgetting the fact that Indian history has had more moralists than murders unlike the West where the mass-murderers breed from generations to generations in the form of politicians, leaders, lawyers? Should I mention the recent samples from your country?

You would never see any difference between Indian casteism and the Western racism as you seem to assume a similar hysteria of a typical Westerner that I have mentioned all over this post. Keep supporting all these propandas as your kind has always been doing that. These propagandas have been the real reason behind the violent mass-hysteria in the West, inspite of the West being much ahead in civilization and civilised ideals.

Westerners are surely creative, honest and lawful people, but they don’t know how to lead a simple life. They don’t know how/when to adjust or compromise. They just don’t have that typical *sensibility and sensitivity of an Indian*. They are just out to change and challenge the world all the time, even when the change is not necessary. Hyperactive are their minds.

Now forget all propagandas, calm down and go for a romantic drive or something with your hubby. :-P

Amit Desai April 24, 2011 at 3:25 pm

Tamasha, my longest ever post is awaiting moderation. I guess we’d have to have ‘ceasefire’ for a weak I guess. :-P

Amit Desai April 24, 2011 at 3:27 pm

I meant “week”, not “weak”

TAMASHA! April 24, 2011 at 8:02 pm

@Amit-
Oh well, like Sharell I’ve decided to leave on a ‘spiritual’ pilgrimage of sorts for a few days.
Ciao for now!

Amit Desai April 25, 2011 at 4:51 am

Tamasha, are you going to Jerusalem? Good choice. You can really help yourself and and the people over there who seem to have many problems as Indians do. But hey, don’t just start your American propagandas over there, you may get killed and become a spirit. :-P

vandana April 21, 2011 at 8:09 pm

Mother Teresa was not a nazi, but I know of 1 case at least ( when i lived in India), where her organisation stopped the treatment and help to a poor clerk from IIT KGP, who got leprosy because he refused to convert to christianity and thus add to her harvest of christian souls for the lord!! There were rumours of other cases to that effect in bengal at that time. Although, her charity worked for the poor and lepers, they were also given a lot of extra attention and hype by the western press, while another local charity run by an indian, BABA AMTE, was not so much in the news or given so much aid because his organisation didnt set conversion as a pre-requisite. So the western media played an important role in making her into a saintly (!) person. And she received a lot of moolah from evangelical organisations. :-)

Manny April 22, 2011 at 5:15 am

Vandana,

IMO, the amount of good that mother Theresa has done out weighs the sin of conversion. Yes. I disagree with her religious philosophy of conversion but overall, the net effect of charity vs conversion, she still comes out on top.

I believe we have to be little fair to the Catholics. With the exceptions of the Goa Inquisition and other atrocities of the Catholic church in the past, if you look at the last century, the Catholics have done good in India. The amount of Catholic institutions like schools and hospitals and all the good things they have done we need to be more charitable and grateful in how we look at it. So what if they get a few converts in the process of they doing “good works”. The net effect is still positive and good.

I would even say the vast majority of protestants are also are very similar. Take all the Christians sects like the Lutherans and the Methodists etc, for them the central tenant of their faith is “Good works”.

The exceptions are the neo evangelicals of the American Southern Baptists evangelicals and the Pentecostals. These two vile organizations specialize in turpitude as a faith. They do not believe in “Good works”. For them doing good works is an intrusion and considered inefficiency in the process of gaining converts. Just google for “The Joshua Project” and see the depravity of these two cults. Today, they are all over India. Cross planting next to Temples and in your face christianity is a declaration of religious war. These are parasites and they are predatory in nature. They prey on Tsunami victims as an opportunity to get converts. The Indian government is almost aiding and abetting this vile predatory organization.

Manny April 22, 2011 at 5:18 am
vandana April 22, 2011 at 7:15 am

So are you telling me that if India had not been invaded by the British and catholic evangelists and other christian organisations had not had the opportunity to get into India, we would not HAVE HAD SCHOOLS, HOSPITALS ETC.???? What about those countries who remained free of the scourge of invasion and so havn’t had the benefit of the deeds of these christian do-gooders? No schools and other charitable organisation there. RIGHT!! What about Albania where mother teresa came from? Wasnt that country poor enough to benefit from her charity. But you see, its mostly muslim and then belonged to the communist bloc of nations. While India was poor and majority hindu…

TAMASHA! April 23, 2011 at 1:33 pm

Vandana,

How in the HELL do you get LEPROSY by refusing to convert to Christianity? As a physician last I heard Mycobacterium leprae was spread by respiratory droplets.

vandana April 24, 2011 at 8:04 am

who said leprosy is related to conversion???? Shouldnt you implement your READ AND COMPREHEND MANTRA here?
I just said mother teresa’s organisation refused leprosy treatment to a poor bengali because he refused to convert. And I too, know about how leprosy is propagated, my sons are doctors in Australia!!! And there are cases of leprosy/Tb here too among the Aboriginal people.

TAMASHA! April 24, 2011 at 10:19 am

@Vandana-
Ha ha haaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!
Well since your sons are doctors in Australia then YOU should know that MDT TREATMENT for LEPROSY is FREE & provided for by the WHO in ALL ENDEMIC COUNTRIES such as INDIA. So your story seems a bit unlikely.
I’ve also read in The Lancet & British Medical Journal the standard of care given in Mother Teresa’s Homes for the dying to be substandard ie: used hypodermic needles, refusal to give painkillers under any circumstance, lack of sanitation & few trained medical personnel.

Mohit Gupta April 24, 2011 at 8:41 pm

Tamasha Teacher ,

Go to School !!!

Or if you were trying to be funny then you failed miserably as most of people reading your PJ almost fainted as it turned out to be horror of humour !!

And more interesting is that you come from an English Speaking Country. ;) ;)

JAYESH - G April 24, 2011 at 3:04 am

Baba Amte, his wife, his sons and their daughter-in-laws are one of the many unsung heroes of India that have given their entire Lives for the upliftment of their fellow humans.

Leprosy is a dreaded disease and has been, historically, misunderstood and its sufferers undergone the most horrible of discriminations.

All of them doctors (except for Baba Amte, himself, who was a lawyer by education and even for a small stint, by profession, and his wife) have completely given their entire Lives to ‘Anandvan’ and other such organisations.

I believe that Mother Teresa received all the attention and aid and awards due to the’ International Angle’ and of course, due to the Christian Charity Organisations.

He had to struggle hard for aid as he did not receive as much aid and attention from the International and even Indian Organisations.

While both deserve the ‘Bharat Ratna’ it is Mother Teresa who received it, while Baba Amte received the ‘Padma Vibhushan.’

And while Mother Teresa was a Christian, Baba Amte was an atheist.
He believed,
“I sought my soul, my soul I could not see;
I sought my God, my God eluded me;
I sought my brother and found all three.”

Similar to Saint Tukaram’s suggestion for those who do not (and even those who do) believe in God,
“Je ka ranjale-ganjale,
Tyasi mhane jo aapule,

Toch Sadhu olkhava
Deva thethechi jaanava

Mrudu sbahya navneet
Taise sajannche chitt

Jyasi apangita pahi
Tyasi dhari jo hriudyi

Daya karane je putrasi
Tochi dasa ani dasi

Tuka mahne sango kiti
tyachi bhagwantavy murti.”

Which translates,
“To those who are unfortunate and not in a position/not allowed to help themselves,
He who calls such people as his kin (and treats, takes care of them and protects them as kin).

In him should one recognise a Saint/Sage/Sadhu,
In Him one must recognise as God.

Soft, in all respects, like freshly-churned butter,
Are the hearts of these Saints.

To those who have no other refuge,
He who holds such dear to his heart.

He who treats, like his own sons,
Those who are downtrodden and neglected.

Tukaram says how much more should I describe to you,
Such characteristics of a true God-like Saint?”

Amit Desai April 21, 2011 at 3:41 am

I second that. It’s just frustrating when the Westerners continue to see India from the Western perspective and standards only.

One can call Indians castists, or religious fanatics, but Indians are never racists because race is simply not a part of Indian beliefs.

Indians may worship Europeans/white skin color (apart from their wealth). On the other hand, Indians don’t quite respect the Europeans/whites in most other ways. Indians like one or two aspects of a race, yet reject many other aspects of the same race. So Indians just don’t base their judgement on skin-color or material wealth only, rather, other qualities of a race is equally important to them. This is why Indians are not racists.

Same thing goes for blacks. With the Anglo-American media existant in India for last 200+ years, Indians just perceive blacks as either violent criminals or equal to lower-castes. This is more of a xenophobia than racism.

I know some of you mention the scattered cases of so called racism against blacks in Delhi. When a Gujarati or Bengali student goes for higher studies in Delhi or Pune or Banglore, he/she is often get ragged (with crude practical jokes) sometimes to the death. There are hundreds of cases all over India so far where students have died during ragging. Again, this is an immature-careless-violent behavior of Indians, not racism or racially motivated actions.

Sharell April 21, 2011 at 10:16 am

India and Indian beliefs take a long time for us westerners to wrap our minds around. ;-) Nothing is straight forward here at all… and as you know… can even vary according to individual circumstances!

Amit Desai April 22, 2011 at 11:18 am

It’s not so hard to figure out if you observe objectively with an open view. Casteism has so many similarities with racism which draws most people to conclude that since castiesm is similar to racism, Indians are surely racists. But majority of people forget the essence of a caste and a race. Caste and race are two different things or beliefs or facts whatever you name them.

First, race is an idea of *unity* within a single race-system, i.e white/caucasian race unites all white people under one umbrella. Caste is an idea of *division* with in a single caste-system. i.e there are divisions with in same society/culture/race/ethnicity.

Second, the race, literally means ‘contest’. In terms of evolution, race is a ‘contest’ between different human groups to evolve. Traditionally, white people considered themselves to be ahead in this ‘contest’. Caste, on the other hand, is a concept directly evolved from Indian tribes and assumes different ‘ranks’ among people. A typical Westerner would translate a ‘higher rank’ with in the ‘caste’ as ‘being ahead in terms of evolution’. And thus, he/she would successfully manipulate the caste/casteism and make it look like race/racism. Such thinking is valid, but not sound.

Third, and most important. race is a system mostly based on race-specific traits (genes, inheritance etc). Caste is a social system and mainly has society-specific traits (priets’ groups, traders’ group etc).

I’ve only known one sound argument made by Westerners. Caste system is indeed called an “Appearance-system” or “Skin-color-system” when translated from Sanskrit. This is one major thing that hints toward the fact that Indian-caste system may have been evolved from a race-system at some point in time.

But no worries from my side, if those blue-eyed-blonde-haired-Germainic-barbarian-Aryans invented this caste-system based on their superior race-specific traits, then Indians have to be little racists, afterall, Indians are born out of the same racist (white) trash. :-P So one way or the other, the burden is still on the white man. I beg your parden but please make me civilised. ;)

Tamasha, I’m sure you would find me the English poem as you always do. :-P

Manny April 21, 2011 at 7:22 pm

The important difference is, Although Indian klans of various subcultures and castes may think they are superior, they generally with some exceptions do not impose dominion over others. They do not feel since they are of the superior klan, they now have a god given right to exert dominion over others to go convert, ethnically cleanse, culturally destroy other culture and supplant them with their own allegedly superior culture. They do not have a history of violence towards other groups …again with some exceptions.

Thats why, Indians do not have a history of Mallus exerting dominion over the Tamils or the Tamils exerting dominion over the Kannadigas or the North Indians exerting dominions over the south Indians and so forth. We may trash talk with one another but there is no history of violence between ethnicity. I am not talking about political/Kingdoms and wars. I am talking people and cultures.

This is the rich history and tolerance in India. This is the positive side of India. Instead, the leftists and others making a false history to demonstrate how Indians are just racists like everyone else.

So this whole Aryan BS and the Dravidian victimization thing is such a vile mischief created by the Max Mullers and other evangelists in history and today perpetuated by the leftists in India.

India has a different history.

TAMASHA! April 22, 2011 at 12:50 pm

Apparently some people feel differently: The writer is a Black American PhD student at the Delhi School of Economics.

‘India Is Racist, And Happy About It’

A Black American’s first-hand experience of footpath India: no one even wants to change
Diepiriye Kuku
The Delhi public literally stops and stares. It is harrowing to constantly have children and adults tease, taunt, pick, poke and peer at you from the corner of their eyes, denying their own humanity as well as mine. Their aggressive, crude curiosity threatens to dominate unless disarmed by kindness, or met with equal aggression.
Once I stood gazing at the giraffes at the Lucknow Zoo only to turn and see 50-odd families gawking at me rather than the exhibit. Parents abruptly withdrew infants that inquisitively wandered towards me. I felt like an exotic African creature-cum-spectacle, stirring fear and awe. Even my attempts to beguile the public through simple greetings or smiles are often not reciprocated. Instead, the look of wonder swells as if this were all part of the act and we were all playing our parts.
Racism is never a personal experience. Racism in India is systematic and independent of the presence of foreigners of any hue. This climate permits and promotes this lawlessness and disdain for dark skin. Most Indian pop icons have light-damn-near-white skin. Several stars even promote skin-bleaching creams that promise to improve one’s popularity and career success. Matrimonial ads boast of fair, v. fair and v. very fair skin alongside foreign visas and advanced university degrees. Moreover, each time I visit one of Delhi’s clubhouses, I notice that I am the darkest person not wearing a work uniform. It’s unfair and ugly.
Discrimination in Delhi surpasses the denial of courtesy. I have been denied visas, apartments, entrance to discos, attentiveness, kindness and the benefit of doubt. Further, the lack of neighbourliness exceeds what locals describe as normal for a capital already known for its coldness.
My partner is white and I am black, facts of which the Indian public reminds us daily. Bank associates have denied me chai, while falling over to please my white friend. Mall shop attendants have denied me attentiveness, while mobbing my partner. Who knows what else is more quietly denied?
“An African has come,” a guard announced over the intercom as I showed up. Whites are afforded the luxury of their own names, but this careful attention to my presence was not new. ATM guards stand and salute my white friend, while one guard actually asked me why I had come to the bank machine as if I might have said that I was taking over his shift.
It is shocking that people wear liberalism as a sign of modernity, yet revert to ultraconservatism when actually faced with difference. Cyberbullies have threatened my life on my YouTube videos that capture local gawking and eve-teasing. I was even fired from an international school for talking about homosociality in Africa on YouTube, and addressing a class about homophobia against kids after a student called me a ‘fag’.
Outside of specific anchors of discourse such as Reservations, there is no consensus that discrimination is a redeemable social ill. This is the real issue with discrimination in India: her own citizens suffer and we are only encouraged to ignore situations that make us all feel powerless. Be it the mute-witnesses seeing racial difference for the first time, kids learning racism from their folks, or the blacks and northeasterners who feel victimised by the public, few operate from a position that believes in change.
Living in India was a childhood dream that deepened with my growing understanding of India and America’s unique, shared history of non-violent revolution. Yet, in most nations, the path of ending gender, race and class discrimination is unpaved. In India, this path is still rural and rocky as if this nation has not decided the road even worthy. It is a footpath that we are left to tread individually.

Manny April 22, 2011 at 7:08 pm

Indians for the most part are guilty of giving offense and slight and insults towards one another. Totally! They do it all the time!

Nik April 22, 2011 at 11:49 pm

Tamasha, do you think that Africans are not racist? Read about Idi Amin in Uganda and what he did to Indians.

White women married to Indians really annoy me sometimes. They have to criticize nonstop and can never just be happy. Look its not your god given right as a white liberal woman to try to reform every culture.

Like the old saying goes, if you have nothing nice to say, don’t say it at all.

Manny April 23, 2011 at 12:01 am

“Like the old saying goes, if you have nothing nice to say, don’t say it at all.”

Oh Lord! That would pretty much shut me up.

:)

Mohit Gupta April 24, 2011 at 9:00 pm

Tamasha ,

Whatver the experience of that Black-American is , its definitely not the faults of Indians.

Only the 300 years of British influence can be blamed for this preference of whites over Blacks.

300 Hundred years are more then enough to conver a Lion into a total Vegetarianism.

Indians never made Slave out of Black Population.It were Americans and Europeans.You people presented Blacks as Slave. Indians just made their opinion.Indian didnt even have first hand experience of Black or White people.

Its only after British Came here , Indians Minds were forcefully conditioned to believe that Whites are Masters of the Universe and here to Rule.I mean whole of America and Europe were treating the Blacks in worst possible way and Indians just formed an opinion based on that.

So how can you blame someone for forming opinion instead the one who actually made the blacks to suffer.

India dont have onus to change the reputation and image , because India dont have to deal with Blacks on daily basis.Its the countries like US/UK and Europe , who have sizeable population of blacks, to bring change about Black’s image and Reputaion.

I hope , you got he sense who is Convict and Who is Victim. ;)

TAMASHA! April 24, 2011 at 10:41 pm

@Amit-
You wrote:
“I mean whole of America and Europe were treating the Blacks in worst possible way and Indians just formed an opinion based on that.”

So basically what you’re saying is that Indians are UNABLE to FORM OPINIONS on their own? They need white people to tell them what their opinions are?
I CERTAINLY HOPE THAT IS NOT TRUE!

Your knowledge of the history of slavery is INACCURATE at best. The very word ‘slave’ derives from so many Slavic peoples (WHITES) abducted during the Middle Ages & trans-shipped thru Western Europe down to al-Andalus in Iberia (Spain) & often onward to points in North Africa & the Mideast. Whites, Blacks, Browns, Christian, Jews, Muslims, & Infidels have been on both the buying & receiving end of the slave trade.
Slavery was even endemic in Africa, practically every major African kingdom & society was comprised of an enormous slave class, typically at least one-third of the population.
THAT’S RIGHT BLACKS OWNED BLACK SLAVES.
AFRICAN BLACKS ALSO SOLD BLACK SLAVES.
After the Civil War in the US former slave & Black American Frederick Douglass argued against repatriation to Africa for freed African-American slaves on this very basis: “The savage chiefs of the western coasts of Africa, who for ages have been accustomed to selling their captives into bondage & pocketing the ready cash for them, will not more readily accept our moral & economical ideas than the slave traders of Maryland & Virginia”.

This doesn’t make ‘slavery’ appropriate nor any less egregious in any way. Slavery is now thankfully illegal worldwide, but it NEVER was just confined to ‘whites’, Europeans, or Americans.

check it out if you don’t believe me:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_slavery

Amit, I really expected more out of you than some lame ‘white people are meanies’ polemic. Get your facts straight Mr Brahmin.

Amit Desai May 3, 2011 at 5:25 am

Tamasha, yes, Indians are not capable of forming their own opinions about blacks because they have had no widespread-first-hand experience of blacks, unlike Americans. So Indians have to rely on others’ opinions in this context.

The history itself is inaccurate and forgotten. History is a branch of fiction that tries to connect bits and pieces of information and hence never forms a clear picture. Do you call these bits and pieces facts?

Against your example of slaves as being Slavics (whites), let me cite a similar example from India. In Sanskrit, the term “Das” means slave. Ironically, “Das” is a popular “Brahmin name/last name/surname”. Can I conclude that history of slavery in India includes slavery of Brahmins just because Das is a popular Brahmin name?

Another example, in Russia/USSR, “blacks” is a term used for white people. So what? Nothing can be accurately concluded from this. The old history remains inaccurate by and large.

And the focal point of the argument is the history of cruel slavery in the West vs. history of cruel slavery in India. And You are comparing the history of the West vs. the history of middle-east-north-Africa. Haha typically, the blondes can’t be intelligent. Hey, this opinion doesn’t come from the West. :-P Indians have had some historical facts about blondes (Aryans) of India who used to call themselves dumb-fucks. :-P

TAMASHA! May 3, 2011 at 9:20 pm

@Mr. Mohit-
Well, perhaps if you would kindly pull your HEAD OUT OF YOUR ASS you may notice a certain VERY FAMOUS BLACK AMERICAN…….
PRESIDENT BARACK HUSSEIN OBAMA II
-2009 Nobel Laurete & current US president, he’s eloquent, elegant, damned HOT, & generally kicks ass.

Martin Luther King Jr., Nelson Mandela, Sidney Poitier, Condoleeza Rice, I mean how much 1st hand experience do you want?

As far as SLAVERY IN INDIA GOES:
SLAVERY GOES ON IN INDIA TODAY!!!
SLAVERY GOES ON IN INDIA TODAY!!!
The modern term for slavery is HUMAN TRAFFICKING- An estimated 20 to 65 million INDIANS are trafficked for purposes of forced labor & commercial sexual exploitation. Mostly FEMALE. Mostly CHILDREN. Mostly DALITS. Token laws that are rarely enforced are on the books in INDIA. This practice of human flesh being bought & sold has gone on for 100′s maybe 1,000′s of years.
You wrote:
“the focal point of the argument is the history of cruel slavery in the West vs. history of cruel slavery in India.’
Apparently the HISTORY of CRUEL SLAVERY isn’t even over YET.
Sit on it & twirl.

Mohit Gupta May 3, 2011 at 9:43 pm

@ Tamasha

Before I seriously consider responding any of your post , I AM CONFUSED.

Because , you addressed ME and responsed to what AMIT said.

And you have adressed AMIT and responded to what I said .

Either I have got some idiotic vision which make me read AMIT as MOHIT and MOHIT as AMIT ,

or Effect of oldage are really getting on you.

In such a condition of confusion of present , I really cant discuss anything about the history of Blacks and Slaves.

GK of American People is already famous.
So , Lie Down and rest in Sleep for a while. ;)

Amit Desai May 4, 2011 at 4:47 am

Tamasha,

First of all, your black president is not quite black. Stop seeing the world in black and white only because majority of the world is neither black nor white, both racially and otherwise.

Martin Luther King Jr. and Nelson Mandela were American and South African freedom fighter respectively, not Indian residents, presidents or freedom-fighters. What first-hand experience are you talking about? Merely memorizing names of these people from history books (that most people hate to do) is not first-hand experience. First-hand experience consists of living together, exchanging ideas, trade, friendly relations etc. Never even heard of Sidney Poitier or Condoleeza Rice. :-P

“Estimates of human trafficking in India?” Do you know for whom many of these “estimated human-trafficked Indians” work for? If human trafficking is “modern slavery”, “cheap labour” is a “post-modern slavery” legally existing in United States. The clothes you’r wearing are probably produced by the same people who were forced into labour – living and working in terribly bad conditions – all for less than 1 loony from wealthy lunatics (Americans) :-P

Your old nuke-ships have been brought into India so they can be teared apart. Thousands of poor children/men/women have died while working at such sites and many more would be handicap for life. Did the United States give them the workers’ compensation? Were they covered under some employment insurance?

Someone May 4, 2011 at 9:41 pm

Tamasha,
Diepiriye Kuku’s article is very interesting and of course I feel for her and wish her luck.

I would also like to share some things her article brought to my mind.

I recently visited South India for the first time in my life (I have lived most of my life in North India, and also spend significant time in USA). I remember having trouble distinguishing some of the people of this South Indian state, from black Americans. It was very difficult for me to mentally differentiate, especially since indigenous South Indian culture is outside the scope of my experience. Say for instance if I saw a white North Indian, I would never have trouble placing the right culture and country on them (without them even opening their mouths to speak!), but I did not have this instinctive knowledge with a black South Indian who hadn’t even spoken or said anything. And I have seen dark North Indians too, and would not have trouble distinguishing them from African Americans as well of the same, lighter or darker shades.

Manny May 5, 2011 at 9:54 pm

That is interesting. I visited Taj Mahal last 2009. As we drove from Delhi to Agra, I noticed the general people. You know the general people walking around Agra. I couldn’t distinguish them from South Indians. They were dark too.

someone May 12, 2011 at 10:32 pm

Right Manny, I know there are black North Indians who look African American/African too (like South Indians). But what I mean to say is, my grasp of the culture in North India is so strong that it does not matter how someone looks – if they are from North India, I just know. This is a realization that is sort of intangible and goes beyond appearances.

TAMASHA! April 22, 2011 at 1:53 pm

Yes, Indians do discriminate against each other: from outlookindia.com
“Cornered At Home”
The northeasterner is made to feel alien in his own country:
by Debarshi Dasgupta
Jotham Ngade, a young professional of Manipuri origin, has been living in New Delhi for 10 years but the city still doesn’t feel like home. “I am getting used to it, this sense of betrayal. It’s as if I’ve been disowned by my country, as if I’m lost in India.” That pretty much sums up how many people from India’s Northeast who work or study in the national capital feel.
Forced out of their home states because of poor job opportunities and incessant violence, these youngsters find themselves under renewed attack.
This time for who they are. Helena Siine’s is a typical case. A dispute with her landlady earlier this month seemed to be just another quarrel until it took a racial turn. “She started to call us Nepali prostitutes, gamblers and dog-eaters,” Siine says. Their Indian identity negated, many northeasterners say, they are not even seen as a minority but treated as outsiders. Moreover, they have to deal with ‘chinkie’ taunts, lewd remarks and physical molestation.
Mary Niang, who lived in Gurgaon, outside Delhi, knows it all too well. The first night she and her friend spent at their new flat turned out to be the last. Her landlord barged in at 2 am with other men and molested the two girls. What distinguishes sexual assaults on northeastern women, explain some of them, is the attitude that this is something that’s “done and acceptable”. Worse, something that they “deserve”.
Numerous instances of harassment of northeasterners spurred a group of them in Delhi to get together to form the Northeast Support Centre and Helpline in October 2007. Helping victims of harassment to pursue their complaints with the police and the courts, they have handled more than a hundred cases so far. It has also organised awareness camps in the Northeast to sensitise prospective students headed to Delhi. Asked why northeasterners are ill-treated, Lansinglu Rongmei, a lawyer with the centre, says she’s not going to look for any explanations. “That question should be posed to the perpetrators. After all, we don’t judge people by the way they look, what they wear or the traditions they follow,” she says.

Manny April 22, 2011 at 6:50 pm

When I was a little boy, my parents moved to Lucknow, UP. I felt the same way like all those people. I can totally relate. The north Indians were totally different. They stared at me. The children even laughed at me. I was a foreigner to them since I didn’t speak a word of their language.

Yes, what I said about Indians is still true.

Manny April 22, 2011 at 7:17 pm

I am sure, all those Africans who were taken to the Americans and enslaved, All those American Indians who were ethnically cleansed. And all those Jews who were persecuted would have traded all that for being stared at, insulted and even discriminated like not letting them stay in their apartment complex.

;)

Manny April 22, 2011 at 7:51 pm

I don’t think those peasants of Delhi are discriminating when it comes to molesting NE women. They are equal opportunity molesters. They molest anything that moves.

;)

Someone May 4, 2011 at 9:54 pm

Interesting points, Manny. Wish you the best.

Mohit Gupta May 15, 2011 at 2:48 pm

@ Tamasha

When would you stop your ranting against India? Or you like getting abused here on a blog.

Why don’t you spend your old age in a peaceful manner rather than poking your boobs in another nation.?

Manny April 20, 2011 at 9:00 pm

BTW.. I don’t want to take anything away from the bravery and valor of all those Americans and others who died during WWII. The thing is, the deep seeded culture of standing up with the underdog is an innate American culture. I feel they would have done it even if they were simply deists. ;)

Human April 20, 2011 at 4:13 pm

By the way I wish had light skin myself not because I think it is beautiful but because that way I can at-least avoid color discrimination in India, success comes lot more easily if you are a light skin in India… where being dark makes you easy target for discrimination. I am brown and have been discriminated at many places… Hotels, Shopping Malls, Airports, Interviews, School, College, you name it… all this my dear friends by my very own people. All this is something that I have started experiencing as early as when I was 10 years old a age when one is mentally matured to think, remember and make logical conclusions… I still remember when I was in sixth grade my social studies teacher was conducting a drama about Ramayan (Indian mythological story) and she need to select 3 people for playing Ram, Lakshman and Sita. She has selected 3 most fair skin students in the class (All 3 are Muslims, now I have no problem who they are or their religion) but what disturbed me was her perception of beauty… she is fair skin herself with light brown eyes (European looking) she told everyone they are fair and beautiful am sure its not just me but how others students would have felt about her as a teacher who teaches Social Studies considering “fair is beautiful”.

In an another incident I was waiting at a very popular restaurant for almost 45min and a white family (foreigners) who comes in 15 minutes after me gets the same dish before me.. yes, this is what happened, am not lying… and I can write stories for weeks about the racist experience I had since I the time I can remember… I am sure Sharell would have experience such a privilege sometime or the other where she would have got more attention than other around (Call it whatever you like, Inferiority complex or Racist Behavior/mentality)… I am a North Indian myself and have been living across South India since birth and think that south India is far less racist especially when it comes to skin color and accepting people from different states (This is my personal experience) Check this Black African and his experience in Delhi doing PhD an Delhi University http://www.outlookindia.com/article.aspx?250317

On a lighter note.. by now Sharell would have had all her doubts cleared and should have had enough points to ponder as to why her indian husband married is it because if he really loves her for what she is or more because she is a white female… Sharell, that was just a joke no hard feelings ;)

Anyways, I am not really interested in debating on this topic anymore, I am sure future India would be more broadminded and less racists and I can already see a lot of positive difference in perception of beauty, fairness and this whole thing about racism in young Indians ! PEACE…

Sharell April 20, 2011 at 5:00 pm

I am sure Sharell would have experience such a privilege sometime or the other where she would have got more attention than other around.

It happens all the time… and some people tell me I’m making it up, or it’s because I’m taller than my husband. But you’ve mentioned the real reason. ;-)

On a lighter note.. by now Sharell would have had all her doubts cleared and should have had enough points to ponder as to why her indian husband married is it because if he really loves her for what she is or more because she is a white female.

Seriously, all jokes aside (on a lighter note.. haha), it was probably a lot of the attraction to start off with…. when we didn’t consider ourselves to be in a serious relationship. But in the long run, it’s not a benefit at all. If a man isn’t secure within himself, it has the potential to cause a lot of issues in the relationship. Thankfully, my husband isn’t the insecure, jealous type but there are times he still gets annoyed with the attention I receive or the preferential treatment I receive, or people just expecting him to be my guide and me a tourist… I can see that it could really trouble a man’s ego. The whole white skin novelty does wear off….

Manny April 20, 2011 at 7:52 pm

You are North Indian and you are dark? How come a Dravidian ended up in the north! OMG! Aren’t north Indians the Aryans?

LOL :)

Human May 15, 2011 at 10:40 am

How come “Ram” and “Krishna” are always shown in blue skin in Indian mythological art while “Raavan” is always shown in dark brown though all three are dark skinned? (Is this Indian artist respect for Indian gods showing them blue rather than brown) How come Ram and Krishna ended up in north? OMG, aren’t they suppose to be Dravidians?

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/ac/Ravi_Varma-Ravana_Sita_Jathayu.jpg/300px-Ravi_Varma-Ravana_Sita_Jathayu.jpg

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_Seyk1kk77AA/SJM9ThAtQvI/AAAAAAAAAMM/mt5xz3hUcME/s320/cows02.jpg

Amit Desai April 21, 2011 at 2:49 am

If you were sure that the white family came after you and got the same dish, you had two options. 1.) If you are dharmic, you can believe in the “atithi devo bhava (guest is god)” rule and be happy that the guests were served before you. 2.) If you don’t care much about dharma (as I don’t), you could have taken up the matter with restaurant manager. Atleast, you could have called him the worst names you could ever think of and run away.

And if you were not selected for Ram, Laxman or Sita. You could have chosen to be Ravan (you are dark anyway). I’d love to be Ravan. Though he was a darkie, he was smarter, successful, powerful, and a womanizer so bad that even Gods liked him more.

Amit Desai April 21, 2011 at 2:58 am

And don’t worry about your dark-skin. Get a life-time supply of fair-and-lovely-specially-made-for-the-good-bad-and-the-ugly. :-P

Someone May 4, 2011 at 9:57 pm

Yes Manny,
Sometimes, you have to point out discrimination is taking place. That is the only thing to do, and it is not easy.

Human May 15, 2011 at 10:22 am

Ya, I wish I was selected to play as “Raavan” He is a man of morals… not a cheap Indian rascal like “Krishna” who has an affair with every other women he likes and induces mistrust and hate between people …. unfortunately my social teacher did not think I am worth him :(

Rabbit April 20, 2011 at 9:08 pm

there is racism everywhere it just depends on whether you are on the giving side or the receiving side… there is now reverse racism too… however the irony about reverse racism is that the races that were considered so called “superior” have either complete ignorance and believe that there is no way they can be discriminated or chose to take it in good humor… its like one of those things…
what i am stating here is something very disturbing and may be an isolated case but the thought process really disturbed me – in a bar i happened to go to during my business travels – i overheard an African man talk to his other friends – he said – every time a white woman goes down on him he feels she is apologizing for her entire race and for the past 200 years… and all his friends toasted to that and agreed….
(i felt so bad that i cannot tell you)

Mohit Gupta April 21, 2011 at 8:39 pm

@ Tamasha and Like-Minded

If you people have any difficulty in understanding the preference-pattern of Indians over other people then I would like to illustrate it in very simple words.

To prefer a person over others because of their skin color , caste and even region to have personal relationship or for the purpose of marriage or for social and cultural bon-homie is simply NOT RACISM.

To discriminate , abuse , degrade , destruct , demolish , cleansing of any perticular social , cultural , religious , ethinic , national group falls under the category of RACISM , even if it doesnt involve two different races.

India , most of the cases which are described as Racism in Western -Media specially “Evil-Caste-System” was nothing but a social experiment of past whaich has become completely defunct now has only academic presence in social life.

Tell me , how many of Indians in this blog make friends based on caste , race and religion.And even if they do , it s totally harmless.

Simply , there is no racism in India.They are just colorful people and love some specific colors.Thats it. And most of all they just hate the red color of BLOOD.

Manny April 23, 2011 at 2:14 am

BTW..What Race are Indians? I have no clue! Do other Indians from different parts know what their race is?

:)

From Wiki:

Various attempts have been made, under the British Raj and since, to classify the population of India according to a racial typology. After the independence, in pursuance of the Government’s policy to discourage community distinctions based on race, the 1951 Census of India did away with racial classifications. The national Census of independent India does not recognize any racial groups in India.[1]

Some scholars of the colonial epoch attempted to find a method to classify the various groups of India according to the predominant racial theories popular at that time in Europe. This scheme of racial classification was used by the British census of India. It was often mixed with considerations about the caste system.

During 1930-2010, There have been several historians and scientists who have proved that there are no separate races of so called Aryans or Dravadians as they belong to the same race. Evidences include a research in 2009 that has been conducted jointly by Centre for Cellular and Molecular Biology (CCMB) Hyderabad along with Harvard Medical School, Harvard School of Public health, Broad Institute of Harvard and MIT of USA. The research team has made this claim after observing that north and south Indians are genetically similar.[7]

TAMASHA! April 23, 2011 at 10:47 am

According to the Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary-
“Racism is the belief that the genetic factors that constitute race, ethnicity, or nationality are a primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that ethnic differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race. The word racism as a distinct term did not appear in the English language until the 1930s. While the term “race hatred” had been used by sociologist Frederick Hertz in the late 1920s, “racism” was coined as the title of the early 1930s book by sexologist and homosexual activist Magnus Hirschfeld.”

Manny April 23, 2011 at 6:40 pm

So can we say the concept of christian Supremacy or Islamic supremacy is racism too?

IF not why not?

:)

TAMASHA! May 3, 2011 at 9:47 pm

@Manny-
Why certainly Christian & Islamic supremacy qualify as racism! Please feel free to inform your fellow VEDIC WARRIORS: Mr. Thackeray, the BJP, the RSS, Mr. Narendra Modi, Hindi Jagran Simiti, Ram Sena, Shiv Sena, Ranvir Sena and any other ‘sena’ that Hindu supremacy probably ain’t cool either.

Mohit Gupta May 3, 2011 at 10:06 pm

@ Tamasha

You have , in single breath , mentioned many persons and organisations whuch/who are completely different from each other and have nothing in common.

Mentioning RSS and Ram-Sena as EQUAL is as foolish as Rahul Baba’s Statement equating SIMI and RSS.

Thackeray and Modi have nothing in common.Show one , Just One Statement , true or False , in which Mr Modi have taked about HINDU-SUPREMACY.

Quite from any official Documents of RSS which even remotely suggest the supremacy of HINDUS and intent to dominate other religion other than defend themselve in THEIR OWN COUNTRY.

YOU ARE SIMPLY STUFFED WITH SO MUCH OF ANTI-HINDU , ANTI-INDIAN EMOTIONS THAT YOU CANT THINK RATIONALLY.

As OSAMA has gone to heaven for having sunbath at Pearl-Beach with 72 Virgins , you also , for God’s Sake , stop this negative propaganda and state something wise. ;)

Manny May 5, 2011 at 4:31 am

I have traveled around the world… and I am yet to see the RSS, Bal Thackery, Modies, BJPs (Whats up with BJP, I thought they were the opposition political party), Shiv Senas, et al anywhere.

But I have seen evangelicals and Islamists everywhere.

;)

TAMASHA! May 6, 2011 at 12:20 pm

@Mohit-
Ok my little kishmish of love here you go:

All quotes from Narendra Modi’s Little Saffron Book-
“Hindus of Gujarat, unite and defeat the Mussalmaan Mullahs and all their four wives! Hindus of Gujarat, be courageous, and dare to fight, be brave, and defy decency and humanity; advance wave upon wave like Ravan’s rakshasas. Then the whole Gujarat will belong to Hindus. Mussalmaans of all kinds shall be destroyed.”
Statement Supporting the Municipality of the Vadodara City Against the Muslim Aggression (May 5, 2006).
(Particularly note the ‘defy decency and humanity’ part.)

“The richest source of power to wage war lies in the masses of Hindus. It is mainly because of the submissive state of the Hindus that Mussalmaans dare to bully us. When this defect is remedied, then the Mullah aggressor, like a mad bull crashing into a ring of flames, will be surrounded by hundreds of millions of our people standing upright, the mere sound of their voices will strike terror into him, and the Mullah will be burned to death.”
On Planned Riots (May 2003), Selected Works, Vol. II, p. 186.

“What is a true bastion of Shakti? It is the Indian masses, the millions upon millions of people who genuinely and sincerely support Hindutva. That is the real Shakti, which is impossible for any force on earth to smash. The Aamir Khans of the world cannot smash us; on the contrary, we shall smash them. Rallying millions upon millions of people round my government and expanding our holy war, we shall wipe out all the pseudo-secularists and take over the whole of India.”
Excerpt of a Speech Made on the Successful, Complete and Absolute Conclusion of a Ban on the Film Fanaa in the Theatres of Gujarat (May 28, 2006).
Particularly note the ‘our holy war’ part

“The secularists are bullying us in such a way that we will have to deal with them seriously. Not only must we have a powerful, regular and a more violent Bajrang Dal, we must also organize contingents of the ladies-only Durga Vahini on a big scale. This will make it difficult for the secularists to move a single inch in our Gujarat in case of an anti-Mussalmaan genocide, an event which is not very far.”
Interview with the Saamna Newspaper (September 29, 2004).
A CALL TO GENOCIDE?

“Without preparedness, a communal riot is not a real pogrom and there can be no final solution either. Having grasped this point, it is good to remember that while making a list of Mians and their Begums in their across-the-’border’ Pakistani mohallas, care must be taken to accomplish the task without attracting much notice. The dogs must not be warned of their terrible ends.”
Strategies for Genocides and Other Experiments in Rwanda (May 1938), Selected Works, Vol. II, pp. 165-66.
This is REALLY NASTY. The “FINAL SOLUTION”?

“The communal riot is a war of the Hindus; it can be successfully waged only after enlisting the support of the police force and relying on them to wage it.”

Be Concerned with the Manipulation of the Masses, Pay Attention to Methods of Murder (January 27, 2002), Selected Works, Vol. I. p. 147.

“Democracy is one of the ways to be cleverly employed and manipulated to struggle for a just, absolute, pure Mussalmaan-less society.”

Talk with Prabhu Chawala in Seedhi Baat, Aaj Tak TV Channel (August 2004).

“The Bhartiya Janata Party of Gujarat, having made a clear-headed appraisal of the national and state-level situation on the basis of the science of Nazism-Fascism, recognized that all attacks on the non-Hindus in Gujarat have to be launched in the shortest possible time. If some Mussalmaans still have guts to live here with their countless hordes, we only have to stop doing any dealings with them.”

The Present Situation and Our Tasks (December 25, 1997), Selected Shakha Writings, 2nd ed., p. 347.

“If a single Mussalmaan attack us and if the conditions are favorable for battle, we will certainly act in self-defense to wipe him off and all the people of his wretched community resolutely, thoroughly, wholly and completely (we do not strike rashly, but when we do strike, we must win). We must never be cowed by the bluster of English-speaking secularists..”

On Peace Negotiations with Pakistan – Circular of the Central Committee of the Bhartiya Janata Party of Gujarat (August 26, 2001)

“As far as the massacre of Hindus by terrorists in Kashmir is concerned, those Islamic militants, in spite of belonging to the enemy civilization, are like our brothers-in-arms. They provide us an opportunity, reason, and excuse to kill the Maulavis of Ahmedabad.”

Talk with the Harvard University Proffessor Samuel Phillips Huntington (August 1946), Foreign Affairs Magazine

Sigh, how I wish all this was not true.
Dreaming an India where gods inspire love and not hatred,
Your Tamasha Aunty

Manny May 6, 2011 at 6:14 pm

Which statement of his is factually incorrect?

Manny May 6, 2011 at 6:25 pm

Take a look your Kashmir terroroists

Geelani to lead funeral prayers for Osama in Kashmir
Srinagar, May 6, (IANS):

Hardline separatist leader Syed Ali Geelani will Friday lead the ‘Ghaibana Namaz-e-Janaza’ or the ‘funeral prayers in absence’ for slain Al-Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden in Jammu and Kashmir’s summer capital Srinagar.

Geelani has appealed to various Imams across the Kashmir Valley and the people to offer funeral prayers of Osama after the Friday prayers.

Manny May 6, 2011 at 6:32 pm

Begum Tamasha wants Modi to surrender to this lot.

LOL :)

Mohit Gupta May 6, 2011 at 9:59 pm

@ Tamasha

Are you crazy ? Thenn why are you so hellbent on proving that Mr Modi is a demon.

While most of these satements are not having any suffcient bak up or proof.

Even if I see all the statements on their face-value than its seems many of them are of retalitory nature and REST are just CRAP made our of thin air from some SICK-ULARISTS.

These statements are only as false or true as the News of Rahul Gandhi raping a Female Party worker in Amethi.

And what About Rajeev Gandhi , Ajay Maken , Jagdish Tytler , etc ,etc who took direct and active participation in the Mass-Murder of SIKHS in 1984.

Or if history start only after 1984 for sickularist ? Please answer…!!!!

Anyway No statement even remotely suggest the supremacy of Hindu Religion !!!

Come with more such crap ..!!

Nik May 6, 2011 at 11:09 pm

Tamasha, are you illiterate? Can you not read properly? All of those quotes are about self defense.

I like how you only reply to Mohit. Maybe you feel that you can argue with him because of his broken English. You probably fear the rest of us because we destroy your garbage talking points.

Again God Bless the RSS
God Bless Shivaji Maharaj
God Bless Prithviraj Chauhan the last true king of Delhi
God Bless Guru Gobind Singh Ji

TAMASHA! May 6, 2011 at 11:51 pm

@Nik-

Quit making fun of Mohit’s English!

All attacks are welcome except “personal attacks”, calling me ‘white trash’, a ‘dumb blonde’ and other assorted assininities are neither informative nor entertaining to fellow blog readers.

Still dreaming of an India where Gods inspire love not hatred,
Tamasha

Nik May 7, 2011 at 2:15 am

Indians and our Gods have a lot more love than the equivalents among your people. You know this is true.

Nik

Manny May 8, 2011 at 5:58 am

“Still dreaming of an India where Gods inspire love not hatred,”

You want the following

Indian “secularism”

1) Muslims in India can have 4 wives and other Islamic only privilages as per Sharia and oppose all uniform law across all of India.

2) “Sekularists” to steal monies from Hindu temples, but leave the Mosque and Church collections. Instead use the money from Hindu temples to send muslims to Haj and christians to Jerusalem for their pilgrimage (Yes. Andhra state govt allows Chirstians there to travel to Jerusalem on monies collected at Hindu temples)

3) Islamists to burn a train full of Hindus going on pilgrimage and they turn their cheeks yet again for Islamists terror and wait for the “Sekularists” to provide “their justice” if and when they desire that may never come (From past experience of Islamists boming and murdering Hindus which the “sekularists” never did anything about and the Hindus at large simply did nothing)

4) for Southern Baptists evangelicals to go from village to village and bribe corrupt village politicians and convert the ener villages to rabid evangelical christians and when a Hindu try to reconvert them to Hindus, murder him with the help of Maoists like it happened in Orrisa but Hindus should simply wait for the “secularists” to provide their justice which never comes.

5) When Muslims become 51% (Kashmir) or Christian 51% (North East Indian states and kerala getting there), they have theocracy and kick the Hindus out of their state or tyrannize them enough so they leave.

Dream on! Your dreams are our worst nightmare dear. ;)

TAMASHA! May 8, 2011 at 1:33 pm

It is the worst of times; it is the bleakest of times. It is the age of evil; it is the age of the devil. It is the mayhem of Hindutva; it is the terror of Islam. It is the season of riots; it is the season of blasts. It was during the spring of Godhara; it was during the fall of Manhattan. There is something rotten in the state of Gujarat. There is something rotten in the state of Islam. It is the democratic reign of Narendra Modi. It is the undemocratic reign of Osama bin Laden no more?
Some rise by sin, and some by virtue fall.
Fair is foul, and foul is fair.
And thus I clothe my naked villany
With odd old ends stol’n out of holy writ,
And seem a saint, when most I play the devil!

The NEW dark ages of Narendra Bin Laden and the Hindu Taliban?

Mohit Gupta May 8, 2011 at 2:38 pm

@ Tamasha Aunty G

As I have already told you that I care a damn if my English-Skills are judged excellent or pathetic by anyone because for me its just a language which , unfortunately , is the only medium to communicate with you and other persons having mother-tounge different from mine.

More than the sytax and grammar of English , authenticity , rationality and logic of an argument has more relevance and value in a meaningfull debate.

Nik is not making fun of my English but making an honest observation about the whole situation and my last post which indeed had many syntax and spelling errors and challenging you to debate on the merit of content rather than the literary prowess.

You have mentioned all evils of this world but very cleverly forgot to mention biggest evil of comtemporary world , that is , “Rude” , “Disrespectfull” and “Violent” Attitude of your country America and other Christian Nations.

“Obama Bin Laden ” is far more realistic than “Narendra Bin Laden” , considering the amount of loss of Human-Life and money He(and other American Presidents ) have inflicted on this world just to capture a Single Person OSAMA.

TAMASHA! May 8, 2011 at 3:39 pm

@Mohit-
On “challenging you to debate on the merit of content rather than the literary prowess.”
Well?
Let’s hear some healthy debate on the merit of content rather than this ‘my country’s better than your country CRAP that goes doesn’t prove your point.
Come on!
I’m waiting…………
Aunty Tamasha isn’t getting any younger here!

TAMASHA! May 10, 2011 at 7:35 pm

@Mohit-
Your MOMMA
Your DADDY
YOUR bald headed GRANNY with holes in her panties that goes tweet tweet down sesame street!

Mohit Gupta May 10, 2011 at 10:32 pm

@ Tamasha ,

I didn’t ever imagine that you could pull yourself to such a low level that you will say obscene thing for my Grandmother , who is no more in this world.

Its about you and me.Let it be like that but you have crossed all the limits now.

I should say that You deserve a place in JAIL or a Mental Hospital.

@ Sharell ,

I would really expect you to express you neutral view on this.

TAMASHA! May 11, 2011 at 10:25 pm

@Imam Mohit-

Where is YOUR sense of humor?
TIT FOR TAT, using the QURAN to suggest I deserved to be groped is EQUALLY OBSCENE.

Just for your information your statement:

‘I will abuse you in most gruesome manner that either you will stop visiting this blog or go Hiding in Himalaya..”

Is a violation of US federal law:
18 U.S.C. § 875(c) states: “Whoever transmits in interstate or foreign commerce any communication containing any threat to kidnap any person or any threat to injure the person of another, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than five years, or both.” From the wording of § 875(c) it is clear that the legislator did not require the element of ‘intent.’ Thus, it is irrelevant if the accused claims he/she did not have the intent to produce any injury on the victim; the mere act of sending threatening message typifies the criminal conduct.

Could you at least TRY to behave yourself?

Mohit Gupta May 12, 2011 at 3:33 am

@ Tamasha

So , you use your sense of humour with the panties of your mother and granny .. are you really a woman..You are just an animal in woman’s body ..

A woman can never be so disrespectful to another woman more so when

Do hell with you and your American law , which is the biggest violator of basic human rights..Go teach this to OBAMA..

You are disgusting who can say obscene remarks to some old woman who is not even alive.there has to be some decency ..

Verbal Abuse is nothing , thank your stars that you are not in India or you cant imagine what could happen to you if you abuse someone grandmother who is not alive.

If you are really of your father’s daughter and not outcome of some stray-dog’s play making session with you moma , do inform me when you are in India and say those thing , you just said about family , in my face and see what happens to you.Then I will seew which code of law will you quote to save you..

You are a burden on this mankind , go and jump from Himalaya…

Pathetic…

Manny May 12, 2011 at 3:59 am

Mohit,

I don’t believe she intended to insult your grannie (Pantie). She was posting a limerick.

TAMASHA! May 12, 2011 at 2:54 pm

@Mohit-
Manny’s correct, that is a common limerick repeated by children in the US.
HA HA HAAAAAAAAA!!!
Please continue to make a TOTAL GADHA of yourself in front of all this blog’s readers. (I’d call you a donkey but that would be an insult to donkeys)
Shalom!

Nik May 12, 2011 at 10:54 pm

Get a room guys.

Mohit Gupta May 15, 2011 at 2:42 pm

@ Tamasha ,

Its seems that you were fucked by a group of donkey and thats why you have so much love for them.

Go get fcuked by them again.

Behen ki laudi , teri chut mein Ghade ka lauda mota wala … Raand kahin ki..

Mohit Gupta May 8, 2011 at 2:52 pm

Still dreaming of world where Most-Powerfull Nations like America realise that With Power comes Responsiblity and Prosperity and not the unjustified Bombing of foreign wekaer Nations.

If America is so concerned about World-Peace and Human Rights why the HELL they dont poke their nose in the affairs of China , Taiwan and Tibbet.

Why dont they Bomb quoting the same excuse of Human-Rights Violation and all.Because they dont have it in them to confront a country of their calibre.

So Absolute Power defines how wrong and right you are , not the actual characterictics and nature of a Nation.

Mohit Gupta May 8, 2011 at 4:31 pm

@ Tamasha Aunty G ,

You can very well hear some healthy debate on all the topics of comtemporary world only when..

1. You stop keeping your eyes closed on what America is doing in some part of the world.

2. You stop demonising a Chief-Minister , Elected by majority of people (Including Minority ) of a state , just because a riot happened in his tenure.I dont completely deny/accept his suspicious role in not using state machinery to stop riots , but HE IS INNOCENT till proven guilty.

3. You raise your voice against the US Empire for violating the Human Rights of many people to satisy in some countries to satisfy their BIG EGO which is completely agaisnt the Ideals for which this “War Agaisnt Terrorism” was started.

4.You come to term with facts that All major operations of the US were big fail.US bombed Iraq for WMD but didnt find any.Similarily It invaded Afghanistan for OSAMA who ironically was found in PAKISTAN , Big ally of US , under Pak-Milatarie’s nose. I dont know if its stupidity of US’ secret agencies who wasted so many years in Afghanistan searching OSAMA when it was living in a sprawling banglow in a country whom US calls an ally and dole out money in Billions of Dollars or ITS SHEER CRUELITY of International Politics in which “Power” is the only tool of argument , reasoning and logic.

TAMASHA! May 8, 2011 at 5:21 pm

CHANGING THE SUBJECT is NOT CHALLENGING DEBATE BASED ON MERIT OF CONTENT!!!!

CHANGING THE SUBJECT is DAMNED POOR DEBATING SKILLS!!!

Everyone (EXCEPT YOU APPARENTLY) knows WHY the US doesn’t ‘poke their nose’ into EGREGIOUS situations where violations of HUMAN RIGHTS are involved (ie Tibet, Taiwan, North Korea)-
BECAUSE THOSE COUNTRIES DON’T HAVE ANYTHING THE US WANTS LIKE: OIL/RESOURCES
The West has ALWAYS had a BAD HABIT of invading countries over resources DUHHHHHHH!!!

Now can we get back to the ORIGINAL TOPIC???

Mohit Gupta May 8, 2011 at 5:35 pm

@ Tamasha Aunty G

Will you please tell me what is the Topic here anyway ?

Expecting the topic not to be changed in Sharell’s blog is like expecting a snake to spew Holy Water in place of venom. ;)

But , here , I have not changed the topic but put some preconditions before you can expect some healthy and honest debate.

TAMASHA! May 8, 2011 at 5:54 pm

Mr. Mohit-
WHAT pray tell QUALIFIES YOU to PUT ANY PRECONDITIONS on ANY sort of debate ANYWHERE?

Mohit Gupta May 8, 2011 at 6:08 pm

@ Tamasha

What QUALIFIES you to give Judgement on Mr Narendra Modi , Chief Minister of State of Gujrat and abuse him by comparing with OSAMA BIN LADEN , a dreaded Terrorist ?

I am free to put preconditions on what I want to debate and how.You are also free to debate or not to debate.Its mutual !

TAMASHA! May 8, 2011 at 6:22 pm

Mr. Mohit-
Well, given the FACT that you THREATEN to HARM old ladies (we haven’t forgotten & you haven’t apologized) I shan’t expect anything remotely resembling a debate based on merit of content out of your posts.

Mr. Modi’s statements & actions speak for themselves.

Mohit Gupta May 8, 2011 at 6:38 pm

@ Tamasha

Beeing an American , it doesnt suits you to show yourself as VICTIM. Its is completely against the declared policy of America. Americans are agrressor and not the Victim.

Are you taking drugs these days ? If not then how could you charge me with threatening an old woman without any proof.?

Yes Mr Modis Actions Speaks for themselve, he is leading Gujrat to prosperity so that even one Senior Official of Dar-ul-Uloom appreciated the works of Modi.

Or is this any conspiracy of US to bring down a man who is making efforts to make India developed?

If MODI is as evil as OSAMA , Then every American , yes Every American is “Father of Osama” in terrorism as they supported all the terror activities done by US Goverment in Past.

Come on , You people have no shame .. You bombed Japan with Nuclear Bomb and killed half a million Innocent civilian people and here you come and Blame an elected Chief of State who atmost can only be charged with negligency on stoping riots.

SHEER HYPOCRISY OF AMERICANS..!!

TAMASHA! May 8, 2011 at 6:53 pm

MR. Mohit,
YOU THREATENED ME ON THIS VERY BLOG! You said you’d ‘come and get me….I don’t care if you are hiding out in the Himalayas….etc’
In front of EVERYONE under the Indian Inferiority Complex post. Very Very ugly behavior.
I’d apologize if it were me, but then I was raised with MANNERS.
You also wrote:
“You bombed Japan with Nuclear Bomb and killed half a million Innocent civilian people”
I wasn’t even BORN.
COME ON.
You’re just acting like a stupid little boy again.
Quit throwing tantrums & be a MAN. The VICTIM mentality really doesn’t suit you EITHER.

Nik May 8, 2011 at 9:19 pm

Tamasha, just admit it you have a crush on Mohit!

Mohit Gupta May 9, 2011 at 1:17 am

@ Tamasha ,

Show me the proof !!

Regarding the bombing of Japan , I dont think that I have to teach Lady re-incarnation of William Shakespeare that when I say “You people” to you , its actually means “American Establishment” and not the person I am talking to.

If still you are unable to comprehend simple phrases and words then its difficult to discuss anything with you as I will only be explaining the Jargons, phrases and words rather than the policies , events and consequences of what America has done .!!

TAMASHA! May 9, 2011 at 8:11 am

@Nik-
Nooooooo baby it’s you I’m after!!!

@Mohit-
Still don’t have the cajones to confess you threatened me on this blog? GROW UP & APOLOGIZE!

Mohit Gupta May 9, 2011 at 10:05 pm

@ Tamasha

Even if I have threatened you for any reason , I wouldnt have even thought of saying sorry to you , because you deserve it ..

Because when someone threatens , its only when some one is really angry.So , definitely you should have said something very nasty to that person forcing him to threaten you..

SHOW ME THE PROOF , BABES..!!

TAMASHA! May 9, 2011 at 10:27 pm

@Mohit-
Too bad your parents never taught you any MANNERS or how to use a DICTIONARY.
Seriously,
you wrote & I quote-
‘I will abuse you in most gruesome manner that either you will stop visiting this blog or go Hiding in Himalaya..”
on the
‘The Indian Inferiority Complex’ post of this blog.

Stephanie G. May 10, 2011 at 8:56 am

I think Tamasha meant COJONES! Which is hilarious to me cause she is talking about using a dictionary yet i guess she doesnt apply that to her Spanish words. Btw i know Mohit and he is a very smart guy.
@Tamasha: God knows who brain washed you with all this Information.

Mohit Gupta May 10, 2011 at 4:30 pm

@ Tamasha ,

You have reached where you started from.

Mentioning of my Parents in an insulting manner was when I said those lines which were not threatening but just a warning not to mention my parents. or Else…

“I will abuse you in most gruesome manner that either you will stop visiting this blog or go Hiding in Himalaya.”

It was just about RETALIATORY verbal abuse on this blog only , not the one which your country -men and co-religionist do with innocent people without any reason or provocation.

And you are doing it again , that is mentioning my parent in insulting manner.Better you not do it again.

I can bear anything but really cant be silent if you or anyone abuse my parents.Thats natural.

Mohit Gupta May 10, 2011 at 4:42 pm

@ Stephanie G

You know me ? Really ?

I know only one Stephanie , who speaks Spanish , hails from Cuba and lives in Miami and owe me a jet-ski drive and long-drive on Bentley. Are you the same sweetheart.?? :)

Nik May 4, 2011 at 9:49 pm

Tamasha,

God Bless the RSS! The only defender of Hindus and Sikhs. You, as a white woman, have no idea about the oppression we have faced for the past 1,000 years.

There are far too few “Vedic Warriors” in India these days. India has become a nation of cowardly Guju Gandhi worshippers!

Manny May 5, 2011 at 2:41 am

Allmost all of them are reacting to Islamic and Christian aggression and also the “secularist” Hindus who are anti Hindus.. They do not have an organization or theological doctrine to exert dominion over other religions. And yes some some of them can do evil in the process of their as well. Not going to deny it. You see, the reality is, there are aholes everywhere and there are ahole Hindus too. What christian supremacy does is, it empower aholes from the Hindu side.

No soup for you Tamasha! :)

Manny May 5, 2011 at 2:43 am

The most important thing there Tamasha is this

The Christian and Islamic theological doctine calls its believers to exert dominion over other “non believers, ” Kafirs. There is no such religious doctrine of supremacy in Hinduism. So its not unfair to say, Christianity and Islam is a racist religion while Hinduism, Sikhism, Buddhism, Judaism are not.

Manny May 5, 2011 at 2:48 am

I have to be careful here. so a disclaimer.

I need to emphasize although Christianity and Islam religious doctrine is a supremacist/racist doctrine, the vast majority of Christians and Muslims are not racist or supremacist. The vast majority do not exert dominion over others in this day and age. So the vast majority of Christians and Muslims are not any different than Hindus. To the extent they ignore the supremacy part of their faith, they are Just regular and good folks.

gomps May 6, 2011 at 10:55 am

@Tamasha!
BJP is a “vedic warrior” is like saying the Conservatives or Republicans are “a white supremacist Christian party”. In fact the BJP would be lefty-liberal by western standards, their leader Vajpayee is unmarried (but not a bachelor as he said infamously), drinks, thinks drug use is a youthful indiscretion and is a poet with atheist leanings.

Whatever the “Hindu supremacy” you claim they promote is only over the “Atheist supremacy” of the Congress Fabian/Nehruvian socialists/Marxists and other nihilists.

TAMASHA! May 8, 2011 at 1:42 pm

Gomps- you wrote:
‘BJP is a “vedic warrior” is like saying the Conservatives or Republicans are “a white supremacist Christian party”.
Yes, that IS EXACTLY what I am saying.

gomps May 8, 2011 at 2:25 pm

Ok. I guess our orientations of center, right etc. are different.

Manny April 23, 2011 at 2:39 am

I think the right title ought to have been “Indians and prejudice”

The answer..Absolute, freaking YEAH! :)

Norman April 24, 2011 at 11:16 pm

Manny/Amit Desai&Co, You people can be my excellent specimens or rather guinea pigs for my psychology experiments. You seem to reassure yourself with false assurances of things that about racism by inventing your own definitions about it. Are you light skinned? (Atleast you think you are) I think you make the part of Indian society who indulge yourself in racism based on skin tones yourself… HaHaHa! This reminds me of “De Caprio” in Movie “Shutter Island”

or is it that you are trying hard to impress “Gori Mam” :|

Amit Desai May 4, 2011 at 11:31 am

How dare I invent my own definition of racism when this noble business of inventions and experiments belong to the Normans or the likes!!!

Talking about psychology experiments, every time I’m on Lysergic acid diethylamide, I too slip into this psychological shit and all that experimental crap that menifest the unused portions of a loser’s mind, such as “your mind”, sorry, psychological Freudian slip, :-P I was trying to say, “my mind”.

Anyway, what illicit drug do you use? :-

Someone May 4, 2011 at 9:21 pm

Indians are a very diverse group of people. We are not one race, one culture, one language, and never will be. Sorting ourselves out is difficult.

I was brought up to think of myself as holistically Indian. But even growing up in the same town all my life, I was always aware that rarely even two Indians I saw, seemed to be of the same race, not even in my own family. I was sometimes surprised at the babies people had, considering how different the parents looked from the child. The parents may be dark-skinned Indians, and have a white child who later grew darker, and no one would quite understand why. Or the parents would give birth to children with very mongolian features. Just shows how diverse our gene pool really is, with centuries and centuries of immigrants being part of our very fabric.

Human May 15, 2011 at 10:03 am

I got a crush on black british CNN anchor “Isha Sesay” (http://edition.cnn.com/CNN/anchors_reporters/sesay.isha.html) though she is almost 10 years older than I am :) Isha, stay bachelorette because your true love is here, coming to get you :P

Sharell April 23, 2011 at 2:32 pm

Anyway, for the first time, you spelt the term ‘Gujarati’ accurately. :-P

Ha, I know! I always used to spell it Gujurati… thinking of Gujjus. ;-) But someone drew my attention to my misspelling!

You can be what ever profession you want… but what about your un-Brahmin and un-Gujarati personal habits. ;-) You have gone to the dark side!!!

Amit Desai April 23, 2011 at 3:57 pm

Um, that’s a thing with Abbreviation or nick naming in Gujarati language. You often replace the last “a” with “u” at the end. For example, Raja can be nick named as Raju. Similarly, ‘Guja’ in Gujarati becomes Guju or Gujju in short.

Regarding dark side, nihilistic habits and misanthropological thoughts are beautiful and enjoyable. :-P

Sharell May 10, 2011 at 5:23 pm

Does Mohit have a secret admirer…or stalker? :-P

Sharell May 10, 2011 at 11:00 pm

I would really expect you to express you neutral view on this.

I tuned out long ago!! ;-)

Sharell May 15, 2011 at 7:51 pm

Alright you two (Mohit and Tamasha), this is getting way out of hand and too insulting. I’m closing the topic.