The saga continues for my worldly friend from America, who wants to date a Indian girl who’s family comes from a village in Uttar Pradesh, but are now settled in Mumbai.
Despite her rebuffing his request for a relationship, they have continued to see each other. He’s teaching her ballroom dancing in his apartment. He also took her out to dinner at Souk, on the rooftop of the Taj Palace & Tower hotel. The catch? She brought a male chaperone with her on all occasions.
My friend didn’t mind the chaperone being there during the dancing lessons. However, he was a bit miffed when the chaperone accepted his (reluctantly extended) invitation to dinner as well. Souk is a wonderfully ambient fine dining restaurant, and he wanted the atmosphere and his time with the girl to be suitably intimate. Not possible with the chaperone there.
Nevertheless, my friend has been pleased with his ongoing time spent with her. He was even more pleased when she admitted that she found him attractive.
However, the result has been that he’s started seeing her as a challenge. He wants to broaden her mind and liberate her from the constraints in her life. He wants her to be free to think for herself, and act for herself.
My husband and I had dinner with him last night, and he narrated this whole story to us. Apparently, she also wanted to come, but her parents didn’t let her go out. The reason? She arrived home a little late for her 9 p.m. curfew the other night.
The girl is 23 years old, a college graduate, and is still expected to be home early every night. I can understand my friend’s frustrations, and his desire for her to learn a different way of life. However, despite his good intentions, I wonder is it appropriate?
My concerns are for her and her future if she does become independent and broad minded. It’s not likely that her family will welcome or understand the changes in her, or change along with her. They have so much control over her, they’re not likely to relinquish it easily. Even if they eventually do, where does that leave her? Most likely without the approval and support of her family.
In the West, it’s much easier for children to do as they please. Even if their parents don’t approve, the children are often not bothered about it. They don’t feel bound by duty to their parents. In addition, these days, Western society is liberal enough not to disapprove of many things. This is not the case in India. Living together unmarried is still a major “no-no”. Even love marriages to someone from a different caste are a problem for many families.
My friend will most likely go back to America this year. Marriage isn’t on his agenda at the moment, or in the short term. What will happen to the girl then? Her family certainly won’t be happy with her, she’ll no longer relate to them, and will be forced to find herself a set of broad minded Indian people to spend time with. I don’t even know if she’s emotionally strong enough to do that, or even wants to.
Related Posts:
- The Difficulty of Dating an Indian Part 2
- Indian Boys Dressed Up As Girls
- The Difficulty of Dating an Indian Part 1
- The Unitedness of Indian Families
- Meeting the Family in India
- The Difficulty of Being Married to an Indian
- A Tale of an Indian’s Adaptation Abroad
- Minding my Manners in India
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{ 26 comments… read them below or add one }
Yeah, exactly why does he want to “change” her?
Maybe she is happy with her life the way it is. How would he like it if she tried to “change” him? Advice to women is always, “you can’t change a man so don’t even try”. Well men: you can’t change us women either!
That is just so darn true!
It appears to me that the girl is being cleaver by not give her all in the one go. Maybe she knows that he’s not going to be around in the long run and doesn’t feel it necessary to jeopardise her position in her family at this point of time, after all this is a city where movie stars still live with parents until they are married (and even after).
It seems a little unfair of your friend to expect her to compromise her values as well. The point is they are both in India, Her parents didn’t move from UP to USA they moved to Mumbai, and as liberal as the city is, its still apart of India.
I found this post most intriguing. Because it was something that I also took into consideration when I first met my fiance Bear.
I felt that he had so much more to offer the world if he would only allow himself more freedom. But I found that so much of his life and decisions were tied up with what he felt his family and society expected from him. I remember once I asked him “…but Bear, what do you expect from yourself?” He had an answer to that and it was a good and rightly formed one, but still I felt that there were things missing in it.
For instance, he mentioned life after marriage and his duties to his wife and family to support them and give them as good a life as possible. This is lovely and wonderful. However something in what he said and how he said it made me feel like he was going to sacrifice much of who he was as an individual to obtain that goal. I asked him about his Badminton and he said that once he was married he felt that this should only be done occasionally if at all. Now, I know my Bear…even back then I knew my Bear…and I know how much he loves playing Badminton (and cricket and soccer and chess and so many other things) so I had asked him if giving up who he was would ultimately make his family happy.
Ultimately, I don’t want to change him to Western views, I don’t want to change him at all. He’s perfect to me as he is… and I don’ t want him giving things up unless it’s for HIS own good. I want him to continue to cherish his views as they were formed by his family, society and culture, but to also try to not forget who he was as an individual.
Once we were an established couple and marriage was decided…I told him that he was to continue to play all his favorite games and that I fully expected him to either play with me occasionally or take me with him so I could enjoy seeing him play at something he loved so much. Even with children, I’ll want to do this…so I can point at their father and say “See? Look at your father! Isn’t he so very good! How proud I am of him!” I don’t want him to loose who he is, I want him to become all that he ever could be. I only hope I can be of some help during the process!
Plus…there’s nothing better in the world then watching my Bear kick some serious butt!
At the same time, as a woman, I like to hear when men are willing to sacrifice some of their own personal pleasure for the pleasure and security of their wife. My god, women have sacrificed so much for me through the centuries, and their are so many things we give up when we get pregnant and have babies……………. let the men also start giving up some stuff, damnit.
CORRECTION: “…not to disapprove of many things…” should be changed “…not to disapprove of ANY thing…” Haha They perhaps know that once their children are gron up they won’t listen to more or less anything they say, good or bad. Lol
I meant grown up…
I dont think your friend is particularly clever or smart about his own world view. I am not so sure his stay in India quite broadened his own experiences and ability to appreciate that the world does not have to be run according to the rules that he is most familiar with.
For myself personally, I have a dread of being controlled and I must admit the whole issue of women being controlled in Indian society is something that needs change. I also realise that change must happen from within.
Ballroom dancing and dinners at the Taj notwithstanding, the change towards greater emancipation must come from within society itself. While he may think he has only altruistic motives of broadening her mind, his efforts are largely for himself. They do not benefit her in any meaningful sense. Her emancipation, if she even desires that is a more complex issue than dancing lessons, talk of how the west lives and a casual relationship that will go nowhere.
I agree with your views of … where does that leave this woman when your friend leaves for home again.
I think he needs to retake these courses again… Indian Culture 101, and Things Travel should teach me.
Hi Kiran, thanks so much for your views on this complex topic. I agree that my friend hasn’t learned enough about Indian culture yet. He’s been in a somewhat isolated environment — he works at the Taj Hotel, and was even living there for some time. Now, he’s at the point where he’s started to realise some things about Indian society, but doesn’t have the bigger picture yet and doesn’t understand how everything is intertwined.
There’s no doubt that Indian society is changing. It’s really obvious with the current young generation. So many of them appear to be going to extremes though. The teenage girls drink, smoke, wear really short dresses, stay out til all hours etc. — so much against traditional Indian values. I really hope that a positive balance can be achieved. It would be a shame for India to become too westernised.
hi i met my indian boyfriend while pregnant with my baby we have been dating long distance he is in spain im in uk,he wants to marry in spain then go to india 4 2 weeks till i meet his parents,in so happy his parents have accepted me oh he also sent them a pic of me and his mother sent me over a lovely ring as a gift.im just wondering if there is anything i should beware of as it seems they are just a bit to happy.im just so happy and afraid he just wants a visa and scared that my bubble will burst!!! can someone please tell me what they think.(indian people plz)
@ tammy,
You suspicion may not be so wrong. From a little description, it’s hard to say about your boyfriend unless you provide little more background about your boy friend and his family. First, you said, ‘dating long distance’, so you have only met him online, right? and how long ago and what’s your boyfriend legal status in Spain? Does he seem to be in rush to get married? Is he able to come to U.K on his own?
Tammy, to be honest, I would be quite concerned. Indian people may correct me if I’m wrong, but there aren’t too many decent Indian families who would readily accept a foreign girl, who they haven’t met before, who’s pregnant with someone else’s child. It goes against everything that “good Indian values” are about. I would definitely suspect a deeper motive to their joy. I really don’t want to be so negative, but I just want you to be aware.
I have to agree with both Desai and Sharell, it does look suspect. His parents seem only too happy to have you, which is quite unusual for Indians in this situation.
So – is there an update? What happened with your friend?
As an aside, I have know several friends here in Delhi who have faced challenges in relationships even just among themselves as Indians, no foreigners involved. When I met my wife, I told her mother it was not her concern if I married her daughter (I was an ignorant and foolish young man, but she loved me the more for it – thank heavens!!). As a father of 7, I have wondered if any of my kids will return to India and perhaps marry an Indian. That would be welcome for us, as a family, but I won’t deny my concern regarding the nature of Indian families and their expectations and cultural norms and how that would affect my son or daughter and potentially the whole family. Nonetheless, what will be will be. I love India. I love the culture. I love the people. It is my privilege to have lived here for the last few years, and I hope to continue to stay in touch and involved with my Indian friends and loved ones. Thanks Sharell… great blog!!! Scott – aka mr smith/amysbigpoppa
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Hi Mr Smith, he’s still in Mumbai, but has moved on to trying to maintain a long distance relationship with a girl in America now.
Relationships are such tricky things. I’m laughing, imagining the potential reaction of your wife’s mother if she was Indian and you said that! 
I’m glad you love the blog. Welcome!
I do not think it is that hard marrying foreigner’s as it used to be earlier. I have seen quite a few Indian-foreigner marriages lately. Many middle class parents living in big metros have started to accept this as we have a generation of the nation’s intellectual and financial cream settled in nations like the U.S.A, U.K., Singapore, Dubai etc… I think my parents would want me to marry in Indian of the same ethnic group and caste but I think if I were to marry a foreigner they would accept eventually but after a lot of pleading. However some facts need to be kept in mind.
1] If you are a foreigner, you need to have a good educational background comparable to that of their daughter or son whom you wish to marry.
2] If you are a single mom, divorcee etc… it is going to be hard. Indian parents would prefer those who are un-attached.
3] I think it is going to be hard for a black person to be accepted as a son or daughter in law in India. I know this is racist but that is a fact. Even if you are a Harvard graduate with a six figure salary, the chances that you would be accepted by an Indian family is very slim. However I know of one case of a Ghanian doctor married to an Indian woman from Kerala state. Her family were Anglicans just like the Ghanian guy and they have accepted the Ghanian as their son in law.
However it is always going to be much much easier for a White, East Asian, Latino etc… to be accepted by an Indian family compared to a black person.
4] If you are Muslim, your chances of being accepted by a Hindu family is again going to be slim. Hindus may accept a Christian, a Sikh, a Buddhist, a Parsi, a Jain, a Bahai, a Shinto you name it into their family but not a Muslim. I know of a case of a Hindu family where one of the daughters marries a Christian Indian guy. After a lot of opposition from both the sides the families accepted to the marriage and both sides get along well now. However the younger sister of the same girl marries a Muslim guy and all hell breaks loose. The girl was completely ex-communicated by the family.
You’re raised some really interesting and helpful points there, Ankur. Thanks for that!
hi well we met in his shop where he worked and he was attracted to me and was i ,he saw me every day then he asked me out on a date and we hit it of straight away! i had 2 kids at the time and very early pregnant,ima single mother and was treated so badly from my x white partner so having a nice attractive guy we hit it off and saw eachother every weekend and fell in love anyway just 2 wks b4 my baby was born he said he had to go to india to see his sick father and he was devestated to leave me and my children who he had got very close to so as heartbroken as we were (and him) he told me he would be away 4 1 month he actually overstayed his visa or something and he went to spain and since then he has phoned me twice a day every day.I went to spain on my own and had the best time together and we were heartbroken when i had to go home but still kept in touch every day we were so in love soz for being soppy but i am lol .i went back over with the baby and he bonded with the wee 1 and asked if i thought we should marry i of course said yes but he has to wait for documents to clear,i did mention about the indian culture and he said his fam very happy and wanted to see pics of me an kids,i met his brother in law and spoke to his sister on the phone,he is from a large family and his parents are older about 76.i do think its strange for them to accept me but he has took my kids on as his own and told his family that the babys his i wish he was!!!! his mother sent me over a 24 crt ring and it is stunning and they are planning a party for when we go over!! we have to marry in spain and he wants to go to india to see his parents for two wks after our wedding.he told me hel stay in uk,spain he doesnt care just as long as hes with us and promised me a happy life.well thats my story i have a 3 bedroom house and im from a good background and just need to know if any1 has any advice or similar stories as im so scared its all a scam but its been 2 years we have been together,thx ppl xxx
may i add …..why would there be a catch and whats so iffy about her sending me a ring as a gift and wanting pics of us!!!! guess il just have to trust him.if marryin the 1 you love to keep them close then whats the problem? im white hes sikh and i love the bones of him and im away in 5 weeks to live in spain!!!hey we have to take chances in life of live with regrets
Well she might of sent you a ring because she thinks that you gave them a grand baby and is thrilled…I dont know if starting a relationship out with lies, especially to his parents is a good thing, lying about anything is just wrong.. just my opinion..best of luck
yes i know what you mean!they are old and not keeping well and he was with me through my preg so i guess he wants him to be his as his real dad doesnt want him.hes a wee sweety pie and think he just wants to make them happy b4 they pass as theyr nearly 80 hes also going on the birth certificate as dad too x
Well you sound very happy,actually ecstatic, that is good..I am not one to judge anyone.. You and your sweetheart have to do whats right for you and yours..all the best to you .. sincerely…..
Tammy, can you explain what you meant by this statement:
“i love the bones of him”
@ Sharrell’s Celebrity Doppleganger:
I think it is simply a figure of expression, like how we say “I love you to the depths of your soul” or “I love you to death”.
it means i just love every part of him lol i honestly do and i respect the indian culture and always watching indian programs!! i wish i was indian !! people just keep saying why is his parents so happy and i cant sleep 4worryin now. all white men have treated me so badly and i have met a stunning indian man who treats me so nice and my kids! im moving over to spain to get married then going to india to meet the family is this ok do u think??? xxx
hey can i just say my bf has told me to give up my council house because when we return to uk we will be living in 1 of his uncles rented houses so i fell pretty sure he will def be returning to uk with us !!!:) just so scared he marrys me in spain then flees for india after he gets his paperwork and im left with 3 kids alone in spain
!!! an i just paranoid as i usually think the worst!! is it good that his parents have sent me a ring and iv met most of his indian friends and fam in spain and also his brother in law came over to spain when i was in spain with my ring and pics of his home that was very big may i add!!! plz plz some1 give me advice . (hope i sleep tonight lol )