Lately, I’ve received a number of troubled emails from readers who are experiencing problems with overwhelming mothers-in-law. As Simone says in her recent comment:
I am facing big difficulties because I feel my mother-in-law constantly pokes her nose into my husband’s and my affairs. She always interferes, wants to know everything, wants to be part of the decisions, gives unwanted advice and so on.
Usually, these mothers-in-law expect to speak to their sons several times a day, constantly worry about them, and want to do everything for them. This often includes hand feeding them when they are adults. And the sons? They don’t see a problem with it. They have grown up very close to their mothers, and such a close relationship feels natural to them.
Unfortunately, although the reason for this kind of situation isn’t difficult to find, a solution often is. This is because neither party (the mother or the son) wants to change. The mothers usually have unfulfilled relationships with their husbands. As a result, they direct all the love and care that would usually be in a marriage towards their sons. The sons have always seen their mothers as the most important person in their lives, nurturing them and taking care of all their needs. They continue to rely on their mothers, and don’t want to hurt them. In these circumstances, where there is such a well established bond, the new addition of a wife will always take second place.
Readers have asked me for advice but unfortunately, I can’t offer much as I’ve never had to deal with this kind of problem. My gem of a mother-in-law is the mother of three sons (as well as two daughters), but she believes in letting everyone be. She did of course lovingly dote on her children, but she’s been way too busy to dominate their lives. Besides, I don’t think it’s in her nature. She’s an independent woman. When her children were all away from her at one point in her life, she started meditating and attending a spiritual center to deal with the loneliness. This strengthened her outlook greatly.
I know I’m very fortunate, because it seems that Indian mothers-in-law are often the biggest cause of marital problems. What’s your relationship with your mother-in-law like? Does anyone here have any good advice as to what to do when mothers-in-law interfere too much in marriages (and sons willingly allow them)?
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This is such a major problem in a country like India – and you have identified the root cause quite correctly.. I feel that there is little the wife can do in such a case, if she points out the unhealthy dependence she gets tagged as the evil wife who wants to break the mother-son bond. I have seen marriages break up after 10 – 12 years, coz the wife could not take the interference any more. It gets suffocating for her. Unfullfilled, she turns her total love towards her kids and – and thus this circle of dependence never ends..
There is really no solution for it, but for the mama’s boy to grow up to become a man, and mature enough to realise that he needs to draw a line somewhere.
Hi Sharell,
Great but complicated topic. This is where east and west don’t easily meet. There’s a book that might interest you, if you don’t already know it. An Indian psychiatrist about (a.o.) parent & child relations in India. Sudhir Kakar’s “The Inner World”.
Thanks for your blog. I love it.
Hi Karin, thanks for the tip! I think myself and quite a few others will be interested in such a book. I’m sure it must be a thought provoking read.
Tanveer, sadly that’s what I thought… no real solution.
I guess it makes it harder for foreigners who are married to Indian guys because a situation like this is so unusual for us, we especially get upset by it and don’t know how to cope.
Hi there,
I just came across your blog via way of Gori girl’s blog. I too am married to an Indian and live in Hyderabad with him and our 14 month old daughter. When I read your post, it made me laugh and also made me nod my head several times. When I first saw my MIL feed my husband I almost spit my food out of my mouth, and the speaking to him everyday, several times in fact (check), interfering too much in our relationship (check), MIL having an unfulfilled marriage with her husband (check). So as you can see, this rang so true to me. it’s so frustrating and difficult.
My husband had a friend over at OUR house the other day, (My MIL thinks he is a bad influence), so she had her husband drive her over to our house and give him a piece of her mind. My God…my hubby is an adult for God’s sake.
But I also realize that it’s not just the mothers that propagate this kind of behaviour. India as a society treats young adults like children. My husband told me about his college experiences, and that at the age of 21, if he arrived past the 9am start time he would be locked out of college and given an absence (so many absences were given a monetary fine). Once he was in the college he was literally locked in until the 2pm dismissal, and if he missed a day of college his father and mother were called. Good grief. No wonder people just don’t grow up here…they are taught never to be responsible for their own actions. It’s ridiculous.
Anyway, loved your post, and I will be adding your blog to my own blog. Thanks for the laugh today. You really hit it home for me
Shelley
Hi Shelly, it sounds like you discovered my blog at just the right time.
What I found most bemusing about your comment was how his mother made her husband drive over to your house like that and give a piece of his mind! It sounds like the husband is completely dominated by this woman too! Amazing. 
Hi Sharell,
Reading this blog made me feel like there are many others with me for company. I completely agree with you on all the point mentioned. Its become a common thing in each house which shouldn’t be the case. At the same time, there are few male friends, who ensures that the wife is not hurt by the mother-son relationship and I respect them.
In my case, Even the certificates of my husband were kept in safe custody by my in-laws. After our marriage, my in-laws told me to handover the marriage certificate for safe custody which I was totally against. I didn’t show my discomfort, handed over the certificate to them, and took it back in the pretext of taking photocopies which were needed in my office and never reminded them /gave it back to them.
The mother – son relationship here is such that, whenever there is some decision to be taken, and son’s opinion is requested, he replies – let me think about it. then its discussed with mother -in-law and the mutually agreed decision is conveyed. I have absolutely no problem is getting an elder’s opinion or to go by inlaw’s decision but it has to come directly to me/ us when we are discussing rather than speaking behind my back and potraying me as a monster.
I have also heard my in-laws saying “this girl will destroy our family” just because am independent or I have told my husband that he needs to be responsible and not rely on his parents to get things done. I have been always raised to be independent and do things on my own, as my parents were both working.
This seems to be a never ending topic.
Regards,
Anitha
Hi Anthia, I’m glad you feel less alone about this issue now.
I knew it was a common one and I hoped that it might help unite a few people by writing about it. Taking your marriage certificate is another incredibly absurd, controlling action! All this makes my old “control freak” tendencies look very minor indeed. 
Fortunately , I dont have to deal with this issue. I stay with my hubby’s family here and I like it that way. One should understand that mothers- in – law (MILs) do feel a bit insecure when a girl becomes a part of her son’s life. Mothers are usually pampered by the sons, so imagine when all this stops when the wife enters the household! MILs are also very curious to become a part of her son’s life as this is when she gets into the company of young people and learns new stuff. I would suggest that there’s nothing wrong in sharing stuff with your MIL. This way gradualy you will earn her trust and life becomes more easy over a period of time. Putting up a wall on the very first day is definitely not going to help. I convey even small day to day happenings to my MIL. And she is glad to be a part of the so called ‘Gen X’. She has been a progressive MIL and wants me to learn each and every thing say for example. she feels proud to see me driving a car or drawing a kolam/rangoli or learning a new recipe. Such small indulgences do count a lot for me.
Like you, I feel like I hit the mother in law jackpot. Mummy is wonderful. She’s very kind and loving, and not pushy or demanding. My husband is very close with her (they talk every day), but it’s nothing like the stories I have read of other mother-son relationships. Often, she takes my side in a disagreement! My husband jokes that we gang up on him, haha. She’s been visiting us since September and will be here until February. It’s great having her around to spend time with and learn from. Actually, we’ll be applying for her green card soon so she can live with us on a more permanent basis in the future.
Sharell, oh you lucky!
I have found a good solution though – radical, but works, namely:
stay away as far as possible.
Living abroad, especially in so called western world, far away from India and MIL, gives you almost uninterrupted space. Personally I find conflicts between MIL and “that white girl” unsolvable. We have more mutual dislike circulating around than things in common. Mother in India always thinks she has all the rights in the world to rule over her son’s (and his wife’s) lives, and control all his actions. I was brought up with a strong sense of privacy in marriage and this is the way I want to continue my relationship.
Obviously, a lot depends on the guy. I believe a strong character doesn’t need mommy around at all times when he is 30. It’s a matter of maturity.
And as everyone knows, there can be only one queen in the palace so… living under the same roof or close by does not even go under any consideration.
Oh Sharell!
What a brilliant topic! And I think you have explained it so well. Steve Harvey’s book “Act like a lady, think like a man” (great book if you can get past the title) says that the difference between a a meddling mother-in-law and a second-place wife is that the mother has placed standards and expectations on her son, his wife has not. You and I know that Indian families have a different dynamic, but I think the principle is the same.
I know it was my initial submissiveness and desire to please that put me in second-place to Vineet’s mother. He knew he could get away with it with me, so it was my responsibility to re-educate Vineet in his priorities. Not an easy thing to do.
xx Rachel
Hi, Sharell !
I love your Mum in law’s and husband’s picture.
Both have such a beautiful and sunny smile !
You are very fortunated indeed to have landed yourself in such an understanding and open minded family.
Your Mum in law looks to me as a very caring and warm individual.
Feeding someone in Rajasthan is in fact a very caring gesture … You do it to welcome someone, or on B’Days, or friends and family feed both bride and bridegroom here in Rajasthan during the never ending wedding ceremonies. I often said, jokingly, that the fiancés should fast the days prior the wedding as they have to swallow so much sugar and almonds …
Their blood sugar level must be sky rocketing by the end of the wedding.
I myself would rather to be fed chutneys and sweet and sour gerkings, pickles etc … as I’m not a sweet tooth !
And, do you know what the nikasi ceremony involves in the Rajput wedding ? Your readers and yourself might be interested in learning what follows as told to me by my rakhi brother :
” In the Nikasi Ceremony the bridegroom mounts the horse for his final departure for getting married from his Father’s house and all the gents accompanying him are attired in traditional dresses with turbans & swords & the procession marches up to a distance. But before that there are ceremonies in the Zenana side, with ladies singing songs of wedding & the Mother is supposed to feed her milk to the son, signifying that he should not insult the Mother’s milk as, he is what he is, today on account of the Mother’s milk! ” Now you understand how important a son is in the Indian society and particularly for his Mother !
I like to agree with what Priya says. Most, if not all cases are because of the mothers’ curiosity and she wants to know what’s going on with her son’s life. She wants to know if she can trust the new member in the family and wants to help the newly weds in making their decisions. Almost all mothers-in-law act so because of worry rather than anything else, unless they are really evil (which is highly unlikely). The solution is to make them feel welcome and gaining their trust by asking for their opinions and discussing with them. As their trust in you builds, their worry and the over-indulgence will gradually star coming down.
Well, the only solution to this problem is that when you people will become MIL, don’t interfere in your son’s life. Afterall, Kyunki Saas bhi Kabhi bahu thi..
My MIL is a great woman and mostly progressive, and we have a good relationship. But that still does not mean she is Indian and still sees things a certain way.
Anitha, your post made me laugh, because the same thing happened to me. My in-laws kept the wedding certificate, and even my husbands passport until I demanded to get them all back. And even more annoying was after our wedding, we had made a certain sum of money, and I had left to go to Canada to see my family and when I got back they had taken the money and bought us a chunk of gold, which they “kept” for “us”.
I was astounded! Yes, I know buying a chunk of gold was not the worst thing one could do, but in retrospect it was our money to do with what we pleased. We had just moved into a new place and needed everything new, that money could have come in handy. My hubby agreed it was a little intrusive, but of course sided with mummy.
Man the list can go on and on…..I’ll have to write my own blog postings on this topic and could probably write a book!
That gold is worth double now? LOL
BTW..That was way too intrusive. Thats why some desi women loathe their MILs. They get frustrated with their husband if he is not weened off his mother after marriage.
Listen folks. Not every Indian mom is like this. Although I would say its more common in the north than in the South.
Personally, I despise men who are too chummy with their moms.
You have hit the bull’s eye in terms of the reasoning. I’d like to add a few more points:
1. Women in olden day India (and in many cases, even now) had/have no time or inclination for hobbies, especially after marriage & more so after kids because they were brought up with just one goal in mind – getting them married to a nice husband/family.
2. Relationships are like business in India. I’ve even heard movie dialogs that compare the son to a cow (forget the gender aspect for a minute) – you feed the cow now and it is supposed to give you milk later. There is some kind of monetary & emotional support expected out of a son. The woman has this ingrained in her thro values passed on during her childhood/adoloscence & like many things in India she fails to question & merely follows what was said to her. Olden days, they breastfed only first born sons & didn’t care much for subsequent kids, especially if they were girls.
3. The important agenda is for them to smoothly run the family while the man of the house works and later when he stops working as well (save-conserve-save more). This can only be done by ensuring the son stays loyal to them.
As for solutions,
#1: MILs nose-poke because they have too much time on their hands, not enough passions or hobbies. One solution could be to empower women to be entrepreneurs, have hobbies, get them interested in various activities and educate them especially in rural areas.
#3: MILs are insecure that all the love, support (both emotional & monetary) might start dwindling after a new woman enters her son’s life. Worries of social status, future & loneliness in old age drive them to do weird things. The solution is for the man to be a man and not be dependent on his “mommy” well into adulthood. He also needs to explain to his family the truth -that his wife will in fact be the important person in his life after wedding but that doesn’t mean he would totally be cut off from his parents.
All these would take time, but already things are much better than before & I’m sure they will be in the future, however slow.
Just some of my thoughts…
My MUMMY is the best!!
I am super lucky to have her, she is liberal, understanding and loves me like crazy!
She has never placed any restrictions on me, only on Vishav to keep me happy!
She is very happy and fulfilled in her marriage so I guess that is a huge factor too!
She has announced to the family that now that I am pregnant, everyone is second to me!
Weee!
Sharell, where are my pics and ‘that’ blog?
Don’t tell me yesterday’s outing got cancelled!
Hmmmm…. very interesting….
This post’s is of special significance for me as this topic was of some major discussion during the preparations of my sister’s wedding.
The Indian son is, as your post/ comments show, a ‘mama’s boy.’
No doubt about the fact that he is pampered.
The difference is how MUCH.
I, as a son of an Indian mother, would like to explain my take on the complex and interesting mother-son relationship in India.
The task of ‘bringing up’ of of the children, traditionally, has been of the mother, especially and the other women of the household while the males are out for work.
In India, the male child is the preffered child and surprisingly, many times its the women who desire a son….
In many of the traditional families, especially rural areas, the girl child is brought up with more stricter rules, less pampering.
The sons get the preference over meals, education and career while the daughters are married off as soon as they are ‘of age’ with a large dowry.
The son is looked upon as the ‘care provider’ of the parents at their old age and the daughter, since is married of and part of the ‘other’ family cannot be’relied upon’ to do so….
(Instances of sons ‘failing’ to do so while the daughter ‘does’ brings them a rather rude shock, dare I say!
)
Thankfully, this mindset is changing, but the mother-son relationship is as ‘strong’ as before.
So, the son is brought up by the mother, in a loving environment and pampered a lot.
)
Indians eat with their hands and Mothers handfeeding the children is seen a sign of motherly affection and is sometimes continued even when they are 10 yrs. old!
(I was taught table manners early. My ‘hand-feeding’ pass extended only upto 2 years, while my sis gets hand-fed even today!.
Plus, in India the mother-child relationship is held sacred and respecting and fullfilling the mother’s wishes is considered the ‘ideal’ behaviour.
Mothers are not only loved in India, but are worshipped and considered as and more than God.
There’s a saying in Marathi:-
Swami tinhi jagacha, Aai-vina bhikari.
(The Lord of all the three worlds – The Heaven, The Earth and The Hell – is still a ‘beggar’ since He does not have a mother.)
And as Sharell mentioned, the mother puts all her loving attention on the son and the son, being brought up in this environment sees nothing wrong in the mother’s affection and love which, in his eyes has always been unwavering, true and greatest.
To then share most/all of his thoughts, the ambitions of his Life is but obivious and to be ‘advised’ and ‘guided’ is then a default.
In India, due to the caste system, the family occupation was fixed and the sons used to follow the family trade.
The elders of the traditional joint Indian family dictated not only the finances but also the major decisions of the family and even now, we see the parents, many times, deciding the career option for their children.
The past generations have always been brought up in this manner and the nuclear family concept is still a bit foreign here, though widespread in the cities.
While in the West, the children, by late teenage leave their homes for further studies and financially become independant, majority children, in India still live at home (like me, but then my college’s in Mumbai and I am NOT willing to spend half of my Baba’s salary as rent! The rent prices here are maddening!) while studying and earn their livelihood while living in their parents’s house.
Besides, after marriage, the son and his wife stay at his parents’s place.
Now, in India, marriages have been traditionally ‘arranged’ where the daughter-in-law is trained and is taught what to ‘expect’ in her future home.
). When the bahu becomes a mother, we see the cycle repeating itself.
The mother-in-law (saas) then controls the entry, influence and behaviour of the new bahu till that time as the bahu becomes comfortable enough and either remains docile or starts becoming assertive and then begins the female turf war, which is the fodder of Indian daily soaps (without the make-up and the designer saris.
But now, the bahu’s got an out due to the nuclear family concept. Plus, the mother-in-laws are getting more liberal and more understanding.
Now, even though, in the present times, Indian sons go all over India and abroad in search of education and livelihood, the attachment to the mother is still strong and still feel like sharing their experiences with their mothers.
Nowadays, the girls too are independant, educated and career-oriented, which is all foreign to the traditional mother-in-law.
Eg. My sis, a doctor, has not had time to learn how to cook well and there was some tension. Then, it was hard to accept to the mother-in-law that being a practicing Ophthalmologist and carrying out ALL the duties of a traditional housewife cannot be possible in a span of 24 hrs alongwith 8 hrs of sleep and 2 hours of leisure, after a hard day of work.
And nowadays, LOVE marriages are in vogue and if its inter-caste, inter-faith, inter-nationality, all hell is ready to break loose.
These are the general reactions:-
Shock.
)
Disbelief.
A sense of failure, as a mother, in not instilling the correct values. (My favourite part as one gets to watch human emotions carried to the extreme. I advise a gunny bag of popcorn!)
Anger.
Why?
Must NOT be my son’s fault. After all, I have done all I could have to bring him up to follow the ‘correct values.’ SHE must have ‘trapped’ him. (WOW!) Must have done ‘black magic’ the witch! (Paisa vasool! – Money’s worth!
Then, comes the trying to ‘reason out’ part and ‘put on the peer-pressure’ part and ‘emotional blackmail’ part. (YaaY! Blockbuster!)
Then, the son, who has fallen in Love, which is a foreign and sometimes a maligned concept, to a traditional Indian family, becomes confused, is afraid and wakes up to the fact that he has to take certain decisions on his own and make some tough choices, on his own.
This is the toughest test and many of my friends’s reltionship have seen an end here.
Then, if married, its the continuous probing and checking and counter-checking by the mother-in-law that begins.
Its not completely her fault, though.
She, herself, was brought up in a traditional way and has always dreamed of bringing a bahu of her wishes, acting according to her ‘whims’, knowledgeable in her own customs, as she herself had gone through.
Plus, its not accepted by the society and now she too has to make some adjustments and give some of her ‘dreams’ up, accordingly….
It takes a woman of some liberal thinking and understanding to do that.
How to then win the situation if she is behaving like a bi**h?
First of all, judge whether she actually a bi**h or plain confused and having a hard time adjusting and trying to ‘win back her son’s affection to which she, like all her peers, have all the right’.
If she is the latter, you have hope.
In my sister’s case, it was the latter.
)
She tackled it in an interesting way. (By my help.
She first ‘explained’ the whole situation to her husband that she ‘understood’ her mother, sympathised with her, loves her and wants HIS help to make her feel happy and good.
Then, for a few months, acted like a perfect bahu, a housewife, even learnt cooking….
(I haven’t eaten, but Jiju says a human can manage to survive, on what she cooks, for a long time.)
something….
Also, asked her opinion on clothes, food, jewellery, people, the family customs etc.
And, through Jiju’s help, found out her favourite God, colour, saree, small little things like how she keeps the cushions on the living room, does her Puja, what she likes during vrat, and what Jiju’s father likes etc. and started doing those things, giving ‘pleasant’ surprises.
(My sister’s a hellfire and I used to be her boxing cushion for all her frustrations – she gets angry instanly and usually reacts on the spot which was a complete no-no, here!)
Slowly, the mother-in-law has woken upto her wonderful daughter-in-law and now my sis has managed to become the apple of her eye – educated, smart, intelligent, from Mumbai, but so caring and loving daughter-in-law.
(I got a whole box of Diwali sweets and chocolates, plus a cell phone on my birthday, so I am happy…. for now!)
In return, my sis now practices and is in fact going to Chennai as a Resident for a year to earn a Fellowship which means she won’t be coming to Pune for a year, which means that the mother-in-law has ‘allowed’ it i. e. she’s been won over.
But then my sister had the advantages of being of the same nationality, state, religion and speaking the same language.
But then, Sharell has managed it, too.
A few others like Gori Rajkumari has, too.
So, it takes some patience, diplomacy, understanding, trust and communication between your partner.
And a mother-in-law with a good heart and an open mind or at least willing to adjust.
Sharell,
You’ve touched on a topic, the importance of which is enormous in the Indian context. Thank you.
Some of the anecdotes are amusing but in many cases the constant, niggling interference of the MIL is so great that many brides/wives end up committing suicide resulting from a deep unhappiness (trapped too in the knowledge that they can never go back to their parents). These deaths usually occur in the kitchen involving fire and are recorded as ‘accidental deaths’. Once again turns a blind eye to this abomination.
It is said that the family is the basic unit of survival and in the absence of a welfare state, the extended family becomes that unit of survival, using all sorts of modes of operating, some good some awful, in the name of tradition. Even simple decisions are made by the head of a joint family (often the surviving MIL) who controls the purse-strings. This can be very suffocating for a free-spirited individual.
However, one can see encouraging signs of change, particularly in urban India as wealth percolates down the economic ladder. With economic independence comes the shrinking of the extended family. In the affluent West, even the nuclear family is threatened as one can survive outside it as a result of the safety net of welfare. Western welfare is no panacea for all ills but it certainly helps put the MIL in her place.
Although the problem seems insurmountable, there are solutions. The solutions have to be multipronged: a) as someone has already suggested, women who have suffered under their mothers-in-law should BREAK the cycle when they become MILs and should teach their daughters AND SONS to do likewise b) with economic wealth will come economic independence (thou’ not always) – enabling one to live apart from in-laws for e.g. and c) the mass media and Indian cinema has a huge role to play in challenging existing mores and destructive traditions. I’m sure there are other approaches I have missed here.
On a slightly tangential note, roughly half our population consists of women. How awesome a nation we could be if we released this repressed energy and intelligence.
PS: My own mother did attempt to interfere in our affairs in minor ways but I put a stop to it from the outset. Her relationship with my wife was a very loving one from that point on.
Great topic.
Apart from the points you raised, one more point is that the mother feels a sense of security when she is with her son. If you consider the current generation of mothers, most of them were not educated much and they never learnt the art of standing on their own feet. Because of this, they always had to depend on a male for their living (on their fathers when they were daughters, on their husbands when they were wives and on their sons when they become old). Most MILs(not everyone though) go through this cycle.
Because of this, when her son is married to a girl with an independent attitude, she feels a sense of insecurity that the girl might “steal” her son away from her. I have seen cases where mothers try damn hard to convince their sons to get married to a girl who can only be a “housewife”.
From my perspective, this problem cannot be solved by the mother or the wife. It can be solved only by the son. The son should have the maturity to think like an adult and live his independent life with his wife while at the same time ensure that his mother does’nt feel insecure. Not easy – many guys end up disappointing one of the two. But, through a proper dialogue, this can be achieved.
are you sure you are not talking about Braziian m-i-l? Well, my suggestion is simple: pack and move to the other side of the world, so when she comes to visit, it will be a pleasure to let her hand feed her 40 year old baby!!!!
Here, I thought girls liked boys who loved their mother!
Oh well! LOL
Hi,
Does someone know of a blog of Indian girl talking about her journey to a white man’s family ? Coz such is my case. And I would look for some support.
First of all what I can say about indian Mother in Law’s (MIL’s) interference is:
It’s a way for her to know if everything is going fine in the relationship, if her son has chosen for a right girl, that her daughter in law is not too much influencing her son,… Before marriage, the Son used to consult parents before taking any decision. So now things have changed, which is hard for MIL to accept.
One solution : talk about this to your husband. Just tell him you see things differently and what you feel. “WITHOUT expecting for a change”. Just sharing AS FRIENDS. One, you will be less frustrated, two, you will feel heard, three, he will change slowly, WITHOUT telling you or showing it to you directly. If one has to live under the same roof, one has to be friends with everyone ! And don’t forget a typical Indian person would be CURIOUS… !
Personal space in western soceities is much more present & important than in Indian. I’m learning it through my husband’s side. At times it’s hard for me to give that much personal space to my husband.
Atleast the advantage I have of is NOT living with my parents-in-laws… It spares me more time to solve the tiffs between me n my hubby
@Sowmya “2. Relationships are like business in India. I’ve even heard movie dialogs that compare the son to a cow (forget the gender aspect for a minute) – you feed the cow now and it is supposed to give you milk later. ”
This reminded me of this scene in the movie Khosla Ka Ghosla http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uj_OG5BQfSQ
To each his own!! But i have come across people who are plain selfish. Like for instance, when the US based son has a kid, the first thing he or his wife will do is call up the so called evil MIL to the great US of A. The wife is ready to put up with the evil MIL for “6 months” because its the need of the hour..Double standards?And when the kid is ready to walk on his own, the poor MIL is abandoned and labelled as “intrusive”. I think most of us would have seen this very typical indian scenario. Its all about adjustments, unless the MIL is at your neck 24*7. Then the issue is totally different and needs to be handled well enough.
I have such a loving MIL. In fact, it feels weird to even be calling her a mother in law instead of just my new mummy because that’s what I think of her as. She’s feisty but gentle, kind and strong, and full of great beauty and pride in who she is and her sons. She took me in as a daughter immediately and has loved me like one ever since.
Dak definitely has a very close and special relationship with her. I at times would get jealous until he made it clear that he loves and needs both women in his life. We are not the same and do not fulfill the same roles in his life. I absolutely love how much he adores and respects our mummy, and the best part is that I get to be a part of it!
Great topic to post on.
To each his own, indeed!
I am happy that my sister’s mother-in-law was amenable and understanding.
And that Jiju is extremely supportive and takes my sister’s side if any such situation arises.
Like I said, if the mother-in-law is a bi**h, that is, who is not at all ready to even think of adjusting, thinks that she alone can decide what/who is the best for her ‘child’ and is chronically too nosy and feels like she has to control almost every aspect of her son’s Life, then this situation requires the son to have some backbone.
The son has to explain and make it clear, in a caring yet firm manner that while the mother is an importan part of his life, she must remain in her ‘place’ and accept that he now has a wife, an independant Life, carreer.
Its more of a ‘loss of control’ for these women and less of a ‘my poor child’ and as such requires a firm handling by the son, himself, personally.
Of course, if nothing works, moving to a separate place where the mother-in-law can’t interfere too much on a regular basis and wait for time to ‘heal’ the ‘broken heart.’
But then the son requires to take some tough decisions and remain true to his choices.
One thing is very clear, in this huge relationship mess, the guy is the one who suffers the most. He is the one having a tough time making peace between the wife and mom. In that case, girls, we are sooo lucky. We do not have to be in this situation. And yes, its really tough to balance such a situation and bring about peace in the household. Kudos to the hubbys, for once!!
Hey everyone
Wow.. I had written a bit about my frustration (see on the very top) yesterday and Sharell had made a new post on this topic. Looking at all the comments in just one day I can tell that this topic is a pretty dazzling one! Everybody has something to say.
Being a western woman married to an Indian man and presently more or less living with my in-laws I was mainly interested in what stories other western women in a similar situation might tell and also what Indian men in general have to say about the topic.
I’d like to stress that my own MIL is not a “b..tch” or anything like this. I can even understand many of her actions and I know she doesn’t mean bad. She truly loves my husband with all her heart, she is completely focussed on him and she gives her very very best to love me the same way. So far, so good. Because this does not mean the loving ways of interfering are acceptable to me..
Basically, I agree that it is a “problem” which fully originates out of the family circumstances (e.g. Stunt and Jayesh have pointed out the backgrounds), the MIL’s own background, her story, her loving relationship to the son which might be a substitute for a lack of love and care which she is facing in her own relationship (as Sharell pointed it out). Men have a different role and position here in India than they have in the west: Men are the breadearners and they are the heads of the family. They are the ones who bring the wealth, who reach to heights – not the daughters or women. Women traditionally are there to serve the men. And to give them sons, too.
At any case, yes, this complex mix of reasons leads to a relationship between mother and son which is considered “unhealthy” in western standards. And yes, a western woman will have difficulties to accept. However, her husband might not want to change (hey, because it is fun to be pampered by mummy! Why should he want to please his wife who will make him wash the dishes and force him to think for himself??). So I also come to the conclusion that it is a lot about accepting and tolerating each other: MIL has to accept that there is now another woman in the life of her son who has an important place and position. Who has the right to be part of decisions. DIL (even western ones, such as me) probably have to accept that Indian hubbies are different from Western ones – they will always care more for the mummies and depend more on them. Which is (I agree with Aman) a beautiful thing also. I do not ever want him to abandon her or leave her alone in misery. But Indian husbands also have to make a big step: they have to get critical about themselves and to grow up to take own responsibilities. They have to grow independent from their mothers and realise that where mother can safely be left out.
Shadow said that only really good solution is moving away from India to one’s own world again. I agree, this is for the moment definetely the one solution which will guarantee that interference is minimal. Even my husband and I intend to do this and to move to Europe soon. For me, it seems to be becoming the only possible solution as I’m expecting a baby. I cannot imagine how much it will affect me when my MIL becomes too possessive and dominant about the baby. However, I fear the moment when my MIL will want to stay with us for longer (a few months, this is ok, but longer? No!) or when she might be ill or when my FIL expires and she is all alone. What will we do? Having her living with us forever is something I can hardly imagine. On the other hand I also don’t want to fully exclude it. If she’s old and alone, she shouldn’t be alone, but cared for and looked after…
So all in all it’s a difficult process, saas and bahu living together with an only, most beloved and most cherished son: It is often even difficult for Indian girls/women, but even moreso for Western ones who have a completely different background. But I have chosen this path and so have many others. Let’s hope that that culture gap can be crossed, with a lot of good efforts…
It did happen but I didn’t dress up or anything. It was an informal gathering. I’ll try and get some pictures up for you soon. I’m just a bit busy with work at the moment!
Annie, you’re so right. They’re always both smiling and laughing. They have wonderful happy hearts.
“…The mothers usually have unfulfilled relationships with their husbands…”
What utter nonsense! Freudian rubbish! Terrible observation!
Perhaps white wives and girlfriends feel jealous by their Indian husband’s relationship with his parents and wish they had similar care and attention from their own parents? These white women should realise that being with an Indian man means accepting Indian family values, traditions and culture – so an Indian person will always be a child in their parent’s eyes. Unlike daughters, Indian sons are supposed to live with their parents after marriage anyway. When I see/call my child many times a day and want to know everything that’s going on, it’s because I’m the parent so I have the right to know what’s going on (it shouldn’t be called meddling), and as family, I shouldn’t be seen as a nuisance. I want the best for my child and want to know if they getting the best from their wife/husband. White people should’ve accepted this before getting married …if they don’t like it, then leave! It’s not Indians’/South Asians’ fault that they’re nurtured as caring, loving people and don’t feel the need to make an appointment to see their own children …and their children don’t end up shoving them in an old folks’ home.
Solution: Instead of seeing it as a nuisance (your husband will be disgusted and dislike you for saying that about his mother), EMBRACE IT, spend time with your mother-in-law and fulfill your husband’s place as a daughter-in-law. You’d probably would never receive this much personal time from a white mother-in-law!
I think you’ll find, as people have already mentioned, that Indian wives also have issues with interfering mothers-in-law…. even though they have grown up with this culture.
Sharell, As an Indian wife, I think your reasoning is absolutely spot on. This is certainly true in families where the mothers were never treated at the same level as their husbands. Plus the lack of bonding between them. I have come across couples in their 50s, 60s, who do not get along, but have stayed together, just because that is the only way to go about it. In scenarios like this, a lot of women tend to start expecting a lot from their sons – esp because in their minds, they went through all that they did, so that their children(sons, mainly) were happy. And when a new bahu enters the scene, the mother is more than likely to try and establish her terriotory, if I may call it that.
And this does get annoying for the new daughter-in-law- whether she is from a similar background or not. Irrespective of whether it is a love/intercultural/arranged marriage.
The only person who can sort it out is the husband. I can say from my personal experience that when a husband tackles such issues, the mother in law is far more likely to accept it and move on. The problem arises when the men prefer not getting ‘involved’ or when they try to pretend that everything is perfect!
Loved your blog, Sharell.
@Indian Lady
I was also thinking about quoting “…The mothers usually have unfulfilled relationships with their husbands…” and commenting on that. I find this, a bad observation and that, many people from western countries fail in properly understanding the culture. As karin said, “This is where the east and the west don’t easily meet”. India is a different world, when culturally compared to other countries in the western hemisphere. Only people who can empathize and can look at things, from a higher, philosophical point of view, can grasp the nitty-gritties of some-complex-stuff.
The quote ‘mothers usually have unfulfilled relationships with their husbands’ might be partially true, only if people think that ‘Sex’ is all about relationship. In my opinion, many Indian women enjoy wholesome relationship experience, although it ain’t perfect. Both western and eastern cultures have its good and bad…and both are abused, in some cases…For example, the kids don’t have enough respect for parents or older people, in liberal western countries…How would that be when a mom asks her kid to do something and he/she responds by saying “F*ck u, biatch!”?….In case of Indian/Eastern culture, there are cases of emotional black-mailing and exploitation of kids. So, where’s the fine line between these two?!?!
Also, it depends on which family are you married into. It’s also important that the man (husband), to handle this, in an intelligent way. I’ve had a couple of arguments with my mom, when she tried to treat me like a kid..Once she said “However old you are, you are my kid!” …What else can I say?!?!….but I’m happy that I get so much of care and attention. There are times, when this emotional stuff, is burdensome..It’s important to understand that the parents are from a different generation and that they are grown up in a different way, haven’t traveled much, had no access to internet, books, education and many other things..So, they are used to that kinda living…So, the grown-up kid should also make an effort to educate ‘em slowly and gradually (which is very hard)…and make ‘em get used to things.
Also, most of the people in inter-cultural relationships (or expats) form their opinions, based on their surroundings..I mean the place, spouse, culture, etc…In Sharell’s case, I guess she is married into a pretty conservative, typical Indian family (Orissa)…So she forms most of her opinions from this kinda setting…It might be totally different if she was married to a muslim guy, living in Hyderabad (Shelley’s case)…or..married into a South Indian family (Again, there is a difference in Karnataka, TN, AP, Kerala cultures) or North Indian family (Punjabi/Gujarati/UP/Bihari family, etc).
Note: In my above comment, I wasn’t taking sides (MIL or wife)…I just wanted to quote that phrase and talk something about that.
I would also like to point out the fact that the Northern Europeans also consider Italians as “Mamma’s Boys”.
@ Indian Lady with white husband
White/western people certainly do feel in a way jealous by Indian people’s closeness to their parents. But be careful: do not commit the mistake to judge the relationship of each white/western person with his/her parents as “not close”. This is a prejudice I have seen so often and it just is not true for all white/western families. I myself have a very close relationship with my mom which does not mean that I have to talk daily to her. I feel independent from her and she from me, but still we will discuss everything important in our lives with each other in detail and want to know the other’s opinion. I do take guidance but I’ll also make up my own mind if my heart says something else than she does.
You are of course right that white women should realise that being with an Indian man means accepting Indian family values, traditions and culture. But shouldn’t the Indian husband also realise that he has not married an Indian woman and cannot expect her to fully accept everything an Indian woman would? Aren’t there two people involved (actually more, if you consider the inlaws) who both need to adjust to the other person’s culture??
the conflict comes
I feel surprised that a mother wants to see or call her adult son several times a day. That must be a mother who has no other occupation in life rather than being a mom. Had she her own friends, an active life, hobbies and yes, a fulfilled relationship with a man, then she might not think every single minute of the day of her son (or daughters).. Isn’t it?
Being parent in my view does not mean that once the child has grown to be an adult one still has the right to know everything what’s going on. Here comes the basic clash of cultures which we’re talking about: whereas white/western people will assume that a certain level of independence of the child is reached upon becoming an adult, a Indian/South Asian mother will still consider the adult child as a child only. A child who needs constant care and guidance. This is an inresolvable conflict.
Conclusion: certainly, see and take the best out of it, embrace the new thing, try to adjust (all parties involved) and try to understand each other’s needs. But to “Indian lady with white husband” I need to say once more: it is not just the white wifes which need adjusting…
In my above comment, I quoted the fact that Northern Europeans consider Italians as Mamma’s Boys….So, according to this post, does that mean Italian moms also have unfulfilled relationships, with their respective husbands?!?!
Hi Prashant, no I’m not basing my assessment on my own family setting at all. There are no issues there in this regard. Fortunately, my family functions very well as a unit. As far as I can tell, my parents in law are content and compatible together. I’m basing my assessment on what other people have told me, and my other experiences of Indian culture. If there wasn’t some validity to it, why are saas bahu TV serials flourishing in India. They must be getting their material from somewhere.
I’m definitely not talking about sex! I’m referring to companionship, intimacy (unrelated to anything sexual), and being appreciated.
@ Prashant:
You are absolutely right!
Italians are totally Mamma’s boys! You could say: They are the Indians of Europe. 
PS: This comment is made not even by a north European, but by a Swiss, Italy’s neighbour…
Perfect timing. Read this article. Just another perspective.
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/life-style/relationships/man-woman/Why-women-lose-wit-before-mums-in-law/articleshow/6893971.cms
It seems that Italy could be the India of Europe in many regards…. love for food, leery men who like a bit of “touch and feel” with women in public, and frustrating bureaucracy!
@Simone
Yeah, you must be knowing that better. Are you based in the Italian part of Switzerland? (I mean the Italian speaking part of Switzerland…like Ticino)
Gruße von Nürnberg! Wo wohnen sie, im Schweiz?
“It seems that Italy could be the India of Europe in many regards…. love for food, leery men who like a bit of “touch and feel” with women in public, and frustrating bureaucracy! ”
@Sharell
This is partly true, too! Every year, it is clearly evident, when they visit Oktoberfest, at Munich – Germany (thats what they say)!
“Hi Prashant, no I’m not basing my assessment on my own family setting at all. There are no issues there in this regard. Fortunately, my family functions very well as a unit. As far as I can tell, my parents in law are content and compatible together. I’m basing my assessment on what other people have told me, and my other experiences of Indian culture. If there wasn’t some validity to it, why are saas bahu TV serials flourishing in India. They must be getting their material from somewhere.”
@Sharell
I wasn’t talking anything in particular, about your family…I just said generally that most of the times people tend to form opinions, based on their immediate surroundings, which is true even for an Indian living in an other country/culture. I don’t deny the fact that these problems exist between MIL and wife. I only wanted to argue with your quote “mothers usually have unfulfilled relationships with their husbands”, which is not true, for all the cases. Thats why I talked about Italians and wanted you to explain if the Italian moms also have unfulfilled relationships?!?!
@Sharell: you are right, I thought the very same thing many times! And don’t forget to mention the corruption..
@Prashant: since one and a half years I live in Chandigarh, North India, but have lived otherwise in Zurich most of my life. So German-speaking part of Switzerland. But grew up with many Italian immigrants in my neighbourhood and friendship circle, so know those fellows quite well!
Grüsse nach Nürnberg, in dem Fall!
“This comment is made not even by a north European, but by a Swiss, Italy’s neighbour…”
@Simone
I consider the Alps mountains, as the divider (So, people living North of Alps are Northern Europeans)…Since you are from Zurich (North of Alps), you are also Northern European.
By the way, I’ve been to Zurich, a couple of times and also visited the famous Google’s office there. It’s a pretty nice city, although it can be boring, at times. 
Regardless, a person will always be a child in their parent’s view, because they ARE their child. I think it’s great that South Asians want to enjoy it and preserve their childhood for as long they can, rather than distancing themselves from the ones who had raised and given birth to them.
I think trying to stop or reduce their spouse’s parent’s show of concern and affection for them is interfering with their parent-child relationship, particularly if they both want it.
“…It’s important to understand that the parents are from a different generation and that they are grown up in a different way, haven’t traveled much, had no access to internet, books, education and many other things..So, they are used to that kinda living…So, the grown-up kid should also make an effort to educate ‘em slowly and gradually (which is very hard)…and make ‘em get used to things…”
Even educated middle-class (high caste) families live in that way and I don’t think there’s a problem with it, unless the child is unhappy with the interference for which they can sort it out by talking to their parents without hurting their feelings.
“…The quote ‘mothers usually have unfulfilled relationships with their husbands’ might be partially true, only if people think that ‘Sex’ is all about relationship…”
Whether the quote means sex, romance, care, love, attention, company or not, I’m sure Indian women are satisfied and have fulfilled relationships with their husbands. These are one of the many reasons why there are less divorces in South Asian marriages. I just don’t appreciate a non-Indian – who can never have such an experience (for obvious reasons) – making such generalised assumptions and observations.
@Prashant, I think my quote is being misinterpreted out of context. “Usually” doesn’t mean all cases. It is however a predominant factor as to why some Indian mothers have such an overly involved relationship with their sons.
I wouldn’t know about Italian mums.
“…But be careful: do not commit the mistake to judge the relationship of each white/western person with his/her parents as “not close”…”
I don’t doubt that. I was referring to the actions, the way the affection is displayed.
“…But shouldn’t the Indian husband also realise that he has not married an Indian woman and cannot expect her to fully accept everything an Indian woman would?…”
If the husband is happy with his mother’s display of concern and affection and the non-Indian wife knew about this before getting married, then surely she must respect and accept it??
“…That must be a mother who has no other occupation in life rather than being a mom…”
It’s the most important role to a woman, at least to an Indian woman. I feel that those complaining about the number of times their in-law calls etc are exaggerating it since to them in their own view it seems too much.
@Anonyomous
You are abso-f*ckin-lutely wrong!
This is the attitude (that their culture is superior), which is of biggest concern, in India…which is NOT! I’m proud of India’s history and culture, but I don’t think we have superior culture and high moral values…The divorce rate is less, because ours is not a liberal culture and women don’t have enough rights or freedom and can’t have a say! I see a lot of women, who are just married to someone and are not really enjoying their life..Give ‘em a good job, liberty to do what they want…and you will see that there will be hundreds/thousands of divorces filed, the next day!
Everyone is entitled to an opinion..Who are you to say that she can’t have an opinion?
Interesting….
A woman saying it herself.
In writing!
“I’m definitely not talking about sex! I’m referring to companionship, intimacy (unrelated to anything sexual), and being appreciated.”
Sex is unrelated to Intimacy, companionship.
Got it!
I agree with Prashant: one of the main reasons why India is having such a low divorce rate is not that people were generally so happy in their marriages but also because it is economically close to impossible for a woman to get a divorce. Women are in large sections of society not empowered enough and far away from being able to stand on their own feet. In addition to this, it is socially and religiously totally inacceptable to get a divorce. So people will prefer to suffer in a marriage and be unhappy at times rather than taking that risk. Moreover, family structure is so tight that there is “no escape”: the joint family will always hold you together and in the big family there will be people intermediating between the spouses and spouses can also avoid each other more easily than in a small, nuclear family.
Regarding “fulfilled relationships” I do not dare making a comment: do not want to enfuriate “anonymous Indian lady with white husband” more.
I simply do not know enough. Only thing I see in my own inlaw-family is that my MIL does not get enough appreciation for what all she does for her husband. And that must be very frustrating. I get the feeling that in India (especially generation of our parents), many women are not at all at par with their husband when it comes to education and professional carrier. This can bring a gap between spouses.
H
Yes, this is a big lesson!! Intimacy is different to sex. Intimacy is about knowing and understanding a person, their hopes and dreams, and emotions. It’s about revealing your mind to someone, not necessarily your body.
And it’s much more difficult than sex. People can often have sex with someone but they aren’t comfortable being truly intimate.
@Prashant
You are perfectly right, the Alps do indeed demarcate a cultural line of separation between North and South, mainly between the Germanic culture (Germany, Scandinavia etc.) and the Latin culture (Italy, Spain, Portugal; probably also Ex-Yugoslavia, Romania, Greece). From a cultural point of view you’re right – otherwise, geographically speaking I am clearly a central European. And my country combines successfully different cultures and languages on a very small space which I am happy and proud of.
Yup, Zurich is good to visit but believe me, it is even better to live in. Hey, it has not in vain been rated as city with highest life quality in the Mercer’s Study.
It is very international, too. But of course, as an Indian you might find it just too small. But boring: not if you know your way. By the way: even many Germans like Zurich better than their own country, otherwise why would they fload the city ever since a few years… 
Wow, need anger mangement indianlady with white husband. LOL.
Sharrell is free to express her opinion, if you dont like it, dont come here, the internet is a huge place. go surf off
Sharrell I totally agree with you. I have seen these so called dysfunctional mother-son relatioships myself a lot even amongst white american folks . fortunately for me, my “white” MIL is super nice and non interfering with us, but not so with her younger “baby boy”, who still calls her 6 times a day, has her pick up his kids from school, since he is divorced. she lived with him till he got divorced and she was super nice, she helped, paid the mortgage for them, watched the kids etc..
But she cannot seem to sever that umblical cord with him. She treats me like a friend and loves me and I adore her too. So glad my hubby is the older son and was set scot free. LOL.
BTW your MIL is a cutie pie. She seems like a very nice lady, you are lucky, give her a hig from me.
I meant hug oops
You had said very precisely. Indian ladies as per taboo they always have to depend on their dad, brother, husband or son. They need to cling on someone and cant live a independent life. Society never let them as well.
And these mothers right from birth they see their son as sort of “investment”.
Yes, investment. Today I need to shower him with my love and make sure that he never hates me or be angry with him , because tommorrow he is the one who is supposed to feed me and take care of me.
So, they go to all extents.
If they need money, without dad’s approval they steal and give them and even if they fail in their duties, these mothers protect and hide, which sends wrong message. They instead of pairing with her husband and making right decisions , back bite . So, normally almost all indian guys never get along with their dad and always find ways to sneak and escape from their responsibilites.
These mothers, that is one other reason doesnt approve love marriages. They are threatened by educated, pretty, independent girls fearing that their investment may be lost.
Even if they pretend to approve and like to constantly monitor the married life of the guy and try to bring the daughter-in-law in their control as well . And criticise and find fault in every single thing about the daughter-in-laws. The guys what they thought of their dad, they do think same as well.
Mom is giving toughtime to my wife – because she loves me. And doesnt care much the wife who would be undergoing the pain. And the cycle repeats. And the wife start to detest their husband but cant leave them , instead plan on their investment – their son.
I always feel that in this way, western culture is much better. You are ur own. U find ur gal, date and know her and then marry her and if doesnt work out, move on with ur life.
You dont let external factors like mother,sister, and every1 else other than u make decisions for u.
All these uncouth behaviors of Indian mother-in-laws can be explained by Indian culture’s lack of respect for privacy. Virtually every other behavioral problems one might face, generally, with Indians probably has to do with privacy issues.
Hi Coolblogger, now this is definitely an issue I can relate to. My father in law has the view that my mother in law spoiled my husband, and I will definitely agree on that. Responsibility is not his strong point!
My husband is actually quite scared of his father (who is a very sweet and hardworking man, but who has a great sense of right and wrong) and that’s because his father’s approval hasn’t always been forthcoming. His mother has of course always fed him, given him money, and looked after him no matter what.
Oooooh!
Aunty Sharell dispensing advice to the young!
I agree and see it more clearly now that you have explained it.
Thanks!
But, I have come across such statements such as “Women tend to find it difficult to separate intimacy and sex.” so many times in literature and print media (Bombay Times, especially , think they should file a patent to write such columns!) that the words ‘intimate’, ‘women’ and ‘sex’ seem to appear in a single breath!
And females do tend to get ‘emotionally intimate’ first before getting ‘physically intimate’ as compared to males, who are more ready for no-strings-attached-sex. (Not that there aren’t exceptions, I am talking of a majority behaviour.)
So, after the book gets published, you will be ‘intimate’ with millions, without having had sex with them? (As far as I know!)
P. S.:- This ‘reply-option-thingy’ is creating confusion as the ‘Recent-Comments-thingy’ only shows the recent comments and I have to search all comments, individually. But its a nice change. Will get used to it.
I also don’t want to make a blanket statement to say that “all Indian women are unfulfilled in their marriages,” however in my case it certainly seems so. My MIL told me that she was in love with a Parsi man before her mother quickly arranged her marriage to her current husband 28 years ago. She is very open with me and we have a terrific relationship and I see the sadness in her eyes when she talks about him and what could have been.
The match with my FIL is all wrong too, they are both very unhappy, and seem to go through the motions. My MIL is a mostly progressive modern Muslim woman with a masters and a M Phil degree in English and Women Studies, (she works and has been for 20 years, does not wear burqua or Hijab), and her husband has grown a beard, prays religiously 5 times a day and even told me before i got married to my own husband that I basically had “gender roles to follow” including asking my husband permission to work, staying home and having babies, that kind of thing. Of course my husband and I laughed at him and my MIL rolled her eyes. But in my case, I know my MIL is lonely and I truly think the thought of her son moving to Canada one day, and her having to live a lonely life with her husband scares and saddens her. Therefore, feels the need to hold on to her son. I understand it, and I feel sorry for her, but I also know that a line needs to be drawn. And a lot of times I compromise and let things slide, but other times, like when my hubby and I are out at 10pm and she messages us to go home and not be out late (we live separately from them), this is when I try to intervene and tell hubby that this has to stop. Or when she inquires about our marriage or tells me I should have 4 kids (we only want 2, and already have one).
So I think this can be true in many cases, but not all.
Secondly, yes I vehemently agree with Prashanth, that divorce is lower in India due to women being less educated and not able to stand on their own two feet financially. America was like this as well 50-60 years back, then women became educated and didn’t need to rely on her husband to support her, and therefore if she was in a bad marriage, she could leave because she could support herself. I have told my husband, when he uses the (well westerners get more divorces), to check the situation in 30 more years. I bet that divorce in India will be the same as it is in the West because more women are educated and working.
And third, I am not sure who said it, but i am so tired of the generalization that westerners have lousy relationships to their parents and all we do is shove them in an old age home. I was very close to my mother, who has passed away suddenly a year ago. We spoke about everything and had a healthy relationship, but we both knew where to draw the line. I am also extremely close to my father. Both of them taught me to be independent, to make my own choices, but to also listen to their advice as well. Just because we don’t live with our parents, or that she doesn’t call me 3 times a day, does not mean we are any less close than an Indian mom and her children.
@Prashanth November 9, 2010 at 9:30 pm
Nope, you are absolutely wrong (do you have tourettes by the way?)! India’s legal system, like Australia, USA and Canada, is based on the UK legal system which is democratic, so there’s no official reasons why an Indian woman in India can’t live more liberally. Regarding cultural superiority, there are many things that Indians do, or at least tolerate, that my first world country can’t do, such as ummm… eating people …no you’re right, my country’s system and culture is superior. However, there is a culture where old relatives are thrown into a home and only called once a year and where financial success stories are often derided – these are things which Indians embrace. We also have loads of Indians here (like myself) who not only had arranged marriages but also love marriages (like myself) – surely in the UK Indian women have more of a say in their marriage?? And yet the divorce rates are low amongst British Asians, despite living via Indian culture, traditions and values …which they had chosen! This is in the UK where a lot of Indian women have jobs whilst living with their saas! So no, even if you felt that Indian women in India were culturally free, the divorce rates would still be the same. If financial reasons prevent them from divorcing, they at least have the freedom to separate (which only an unwritten unofficial culture prevents them from doing so). But guess what! They still don’t! So there! Ha! Just because most of the married women YOU SEE aren’t enjoying their lives, doesn’t mean most of the women in India want a divorce. I think you’re self-contradicting – do you think Indian women are fulfilled (as I thought you agreed in your original response) or not?
I have so much to say. I should start my own blog… Diary of a [Brit] Indian White [Working] Housewife.
@Simone
Geographically speaking, Ukraine is Central Europe, not Switzerland…Anyways, I know what you mean!
Regarding the Mercer’s study and the quality of life, there are different metrics used for that…and most of the times, they are of interest, only for people from western countries (or you can say : Euro-centric). I know Zurich pretty well and I agree that it’s a nice city..Regarding Germans, part of the reason why they go there, is because of high-pay and less tax (although the food and accommodation costs are pretty high)..and I don’t deny the fact that it is a nice city. In my opinion, ‘Ugly and Fun’ cities are sometimes better than ‘Beautiful and Boring’ cities…and of course, it all depends from person to person and the way they integrate and create a social setting, for themselves!
simone none,
You got it 100% right. You have understood the situation and context very well. Very good post! The Best one yet on this subject!
You need a hug too.
She is darned right about this
““…The mothers usually have unfulfilled relationships with their husbands…”
What utter nonsense! Freudian rubbish! Terrible observation! ”
LOL. I totally agree with this. Total Freudian rubbish!
And close knit huge family! Don’t forget that.
WOW! This is a hot topic you have created here Sharell! But its all good!
How it with Germans? Are the German moms very close to their son like Italians/Indians?
The reason I ask was, The bolly movie Khabhi Kushi Khabhi Gham is extremly popular in Germany. The Germans love this movie. The Polish too. They seem to get the family thingi very much.
Yeah, and I’m free to express my opinion as well. If you don’t like it then don’t read it. What’s the point in expressing an opinion without someone challenging it – a controversial view expressed publicly is bound to receive criticisms. I’m certainly not going to just sit back whilst someone say something inaccurate about a huge group of people (including myself) and their culture (part of my culture!) and passing off as facts. It’s almost insulting, more insulting from someone who never had an Indian parent, can never be an Indian mother or wife or speak to all Indian women in this world and can therefore not have a good rational overall viewpoint.
So SURF OFF! Ha ha!
Quote : “The mothers usually have unfulfilled relationships with their husbands.”.
Since its so common in India for mothers to have such a dominant relationship with their sons,
We would then have to come to the conclusion that most Desi mothers generally have unfulfilled relations with their husbands.
So we can logically conclude, If you marry a desi guy, there is a high probability that you are going to have an unfulfilled relations with your desi husband.
IMO, Desi mothers are like that towards their son irrespective of their relationship with their husband..
Shelly-
I’m glad to hear that someone else mentioned that Indian parents can treat their adults like young children.I have found non-Indians to blame the adult child for having intrusive Indian parents. I felt so alone, until I read your example. My parents are amazingly liberal compared to that guy you mentioned, but they were considered “too much” to westerners.
At least now I can just tell some people it’s just culture.
@prashanth
Regardless of race…..if a parent is too enmeshed with a child, chances are the marital relationship has some issues. It’s all about boundaries. Family dynamics are real interesting.
While I agree that the lack of ‘respect’ for privacy, as it appears to you, is the reason of many of our uncouth social behaviour, I don’t think ‘lack of respect for privacy’ is the only/major reason here….
There have been instances mentioned of MILs managing to interfere across inter-continental distances.
Thing is, in this case, its ‘the lack of control/influence’ that the mother once had over, as coolblogger mentioned, their ‘investment’ which is the reason, many times, for the ‘interference.’
Also, the distrust in the new other-nationality/inter-faith bahu due to the lack of exposure to other cultures.
Besides, most wives are housewives in India and Aunties sit along with each other and gossip about/taunt each other which adds to the peer-pressure of acquiring the ‘ideal’ bahu.
(This ‘ideal’ concept is very curious. We are still looking for the ‘ideal’ disinfectant, antiseptic, anaesthetic, even a source of energy!)
This I think does come under ‘the lack of respect for privacy’ as privacy hinders and therefore, spices up gossiping.
The mother-son relationship dynamics in India is, like I said, complex and such closeness, ‘chummy-ness’ (nice one, Manny!) and worshiping adoration has a cultural, religious, social and historical (Jijamata-Shivaji) sanction.
Not that every relationship has to be this way, it depends upon the individual nature of the mother and the son.
So, the MIL interference cannot be simply be mainly due to a lack of respect for privacy, though it does contribute.
It stops people from getting too bored around here.
@ Manny
I totally disagree…It cant be the same everywhere and every household in India…Indians are brought up that way…Indian families are a close knit affair, where the children are not expected to move out once they reach 16 or 18. In a way, you always have your family to fall back on in times of adversity. Its a two way thing and many newly wed couples agree with this. At the same time it is necessary for the guy to take a firm stand every time, be it with his mom or wife. I feel the major part of this issue can be handled by the guy, rather than blaming it on the MIL. This way the expectations of the mother and the wife will be within limits, thus sparing everyone a chaotic and messy life. I have come across guys trying to please their wives as well as their moms all at once, which is simply not possible. Suddenly this line from DCH seems apt “Be a man”…
Mothers of the girls who is married also interferes in her daughters’ marriage. The MIL and son relationship gets magnified in India because mostly in arranged marriages the new wife is expected to move in with the in laws. Living with in laws is a complete different ballgame- i’m sure if a guy would move in with his wife’s parents we would have the same scenario.:-)
And yes, usually the new wife is viewed cautiously because mostly after marriage families break up..there are so many women whose first demand is to break up the husband family and live separately only because she’s against living with the in laws.
So, daughter in laws i think mostly have themselves to blame..especially the ‘independent,working and arrogant ones ‘ who flaunt their money and are inflexible and non accommodating.
There are instances, as soon as a child is born , daughter in laws who lives separately selfishly call the inlaws to help her with the baby and for baby sitting. And otherwise, she wants no interference ?
I mean, if all this happens how will true bonding takes place between the wife and in laws ?
Well Indianlady, sharrel is an Indian wife and has an indian hubby.
So before you make assumption, step off your high horse and smell the horse manure in your shoes.
She has never generalized all indian moms are like that, she specifically shows how her MIL is not at all like that, for you to get oh so defensive, makes me wonder about you. She spends time with her MIL and loves it.
you need therapy and pronto…and BTW get original. stop using my lines on me SURF off.
Oh an one more thing, she is making an impersonal observation, reiteratin how lucky she is to have an awesome MIL, yet somehow you manage to ge offended and get personal. LOL
she was nice enough not mention the thousands of MIL’s burning thier Daughter in laws for dowry…aha…so much for love, spirituality and Bullshit. Jai Hind
It seems like this anonymous is like the countless desis who love arguing without any rhyme or reason. They have no debating skills, no analytical thinking whatsoever or non prejudiced viewpoint yet just run thier mouth like utter fools. It amazed me how this people who blow thier horns about how great India is fail to see the social evils of dowry, honor killings, women opression, casteism etc, lets not forget corruption and the smack naked look of poverty where milliosn dont even have a meal a day and infants die on road sides everyday. Yet Mera bharat Mahan.
Hello…
I’m so excited I found your blog! I am in a relationship with a Punjabi man (Im Australian (we live in Melbourne)). We have not married yet but we live as husband and wife at the moment and hope to travel to India next year to marry officially!
I am beyond excited – his mother is arriving from India to stay with us on the weekend! I feel really positive about everything. All of my Indian friends are laughing at me saying that I will hate it when she is here – making her sound like she will make my life hell. I know in a lot of families this can be the case. But I’ve pretty much “decided” we will be fine. I dont think I could ever have a bad view of the woman who raised the man I love. His mother is the only person in the world who could love him as much as I do, so of course she gets my respect!
I feel happy reading your blog, I cant help feel a little lonely sometimes. So many of my friends dont, or refuse to, understand why I’m adopting his culture so much… I feel hopeful when I read how happy you are. Dont get me wrong, I am happy, I am very much in love. There are just so many changes and challanges!!!
Best wishes,
I will keep reading…..
Kate
This is an exteremely interesting topic! I do not have an Indian husband but a very close Indian male friend. He has lived his entire life in Mumbai, but I have understood, and after reading this blog post and its comments, I am quite convinced, that he is not a typical Indian man as what comes to mother-son relationships.
He does not get along with his parents at all and especially with his mother, and hardly keeps in touch with them. I have understood that his mother has never been the most warm and caring person. So in return, she is not receiving much warmth from her son either. But interestingly, my friend has a very stong and warm relationship to his big sister, and who in a way has replaced the mother.
Hi Kate, I hope the meeting goes well! You’ll have to let us know the outcome. I completely know how feel about adapting to another culture, and all the changes and challenges that it involves. It can be very overwhelming at times, I really struggled at first but after a while it becomes easier and you can find a balance. I am happy now, but I can assure you it was often not the case during my first year in Mumbai when it would all just get too much. I took myself too seriously and tried to adapt too much (much more than was require of me). However, I’m sure your mother in law will notice and appreciate what you’re doing. There are definitely some sweet mothers in law out there. I’m sure your positive mindset will really help too.
Zahra- Just because the DIL wants to live separately and not have her in-laws interfere does not mean that she wants to “break up the family.” I truly believe that you can have a very balanced relationship with your in-laws, and bond with them and also maintain some distance.
I am not ok with the idea that just because I am married that I have to “abandon” my own family, take on my in-laws as my new family and essentially be a slave to them. There is a saying in India that “having a daughter is like watering someone else’s plant.” Well I am not someone else’s plant. My dad (mom passed on) is still my dad and my priority, he does not come before my husband, but he also doesn’t come after my in-laws.
Luckily, the relationship I have with my own in-laws is quite good, but it took A LOT of blood sweat and tears to get where we are, and that is to have mutual respect and understanding. It hurt my MIL that we chose not to live with them, but we make a genuine effort to visit often and stay in touch. She has adjusted and seems quite happy.
I guess Zahra, that I must be the “independent, arrogant, working” DIL. But you know it’s funny, my MIL is also “independent and works.”
I do have a daughter she is 14 months old and I never at any point selfishly called up my in-laws to help me. They actually never helped me at all, and I never needed it. I am the mother and I am not going to put my responsibility on my in-laws like I see some the of Indian mother’s do here.
Call me crazy, but do you REALLY need to have TRUE bonding with your in-laws? I mean my hubby and my dad get along, but I don’t expect them to be best friends, and I don’t expect them to spend every waking hour together (when we visit Canada or he visits us). But I do expect my hubby to respect my dad, and if they develop a friendship, then great. But he certainly doesn’t need to have a TRUE BOND with him. It’s just weird imo…..
Kate: welcome to our little club;) You have a terrific attitude and it is great to adopt his culture, but remember it has to be 50/50 and he also has to compromise and adopt some of your culture as well. I hope you and your MIL to be get a long well. It certainly makes things easier!
I’m quite sure that the blog owner could speak and defend for herself. At least I’m delivering my opinions in a sensible way without resulting to cheap, immature tacky name calling, unlike you! As I said before, if you don’t like what I have to say, then don’t read it, jerk (you’re making me stoop down to your level) – I wasn’t talking to you anyway.
By the way, a person can marry an Indian, become an Indian national and behave like an Indian, but they can’t acquire an Indian upbringing or heritage nor pump Indian blood into their veins.
Honestly, I don’t think I have anything to defend myself about. Plus, I don’t have the time or the inclination for nonsensical arguements.
Looks like you very easily did slip into name calling. I think this is enough so I’m going to start moderating comments.
I totally agree with you Ariana.
Hey Kate!
Am happy to hear that an important meeting is coming up for you and wish you also best of luck. Don’t take tensions because of what you read here, all people are not same and so I guess Indian MILs vary from person to person, depending on the background and the situation. Just one thing you’ll have to be aware of: that Indian family structure is such that there is less of independence of the adult children. But hey, your MIL-to-be seems to be openminded, considering that she travels to Australia to meet you. That means she cannot object the relation (too much) because were she against it, she would prohibit it right away and would not care to meet you.
And: I find it good that you’re trying to adjust to and to learn more about your fiance’s culture. After all, this is who he is and here you will come to know him really. I am also married to an Indian man and it was from the very start of our relationship clear to me that I would have to know more about how he lives, the way his family is and about his environment. I cannot say that I could live in India forever – I have found out that I cannot. But I find it still right that one should take the partner’s foreign culture seriously and tries to adjust to it as far as one likes and is able to. Moreso because in your case your hubby-to-be already lives in your own world, so you are on safe ground. Don’t be confused about what your friends might say – they might not be able to understand.
Keep being so open-minded and open-hearted – and best of luck!
Kind regards,
Simone
ah yes..i see LOL indian upbringing that oh so superiror than any other..stop making a fool of yourself lady and go make some rotis and jerk chicken.
On a side note if this rant that indian lady said was to be reversed, lets play devils advocate sharrel
“It’s almost insulting, more insulting from someone who never had a white parent, can never be a white mother or wife or speak to all white women in this world and can therefore not have a good rational overall viewpoint”-
phew enuf said?
Amen!
your mother-son blog inspired me to write more abt indian marriage and culture.
http://meandmythinkingcap.blogspot.com/2010/11/indian-marriage-and-roles-played.html
Thnx for the inspiration
@ Prashanth November 9, 2010 at 9:30 pm
” Give ‘em a good job, liberty to do what they want…and you will see that there will be hundreds/thousands of divorces filed, the next day’
in your own words my dear fellow, ‘You are abso-f*ckin-lutely wrong’ yourself, if I may say so.
Take a quick survey at divorce rate among (both) indian couples living in Mumbai, chennai or even NewYork or London for that matter.The key is that both should be working and financially independent.Then take another sample of same number of age/ income matched (both working) white couples in NewYork, London or sydney and go ahead with a comapparative divorse analysis. With all variables matched, the divorce rate in Indian couples is stunningly low, compared to the white couples even in 2010. Iam not talking about interracial couples here, sadly the diverce rate is higher than the intra racial marriages per reports. Your theory that the woman’s independence automatically translates to a jump in divorce (to the western) rate is thus debunked.There is something, which I cannot explain clearly, very ethnic Indian in keeping the marriages intact. No. Taboo isnt the reason. When you are financially independent why would you care for others? Especially that the rate being very low even in western Indian couples summarily exculdes any stigma being the sole reason. Surya, chicago
@ Priya
you are a very mature woman. Good for you, if only other desi bahus can emulate your example….just see the immense advantage of having an elder person offering unconditional love in the household, living under same roof or away for that matter…you deserve a medal.
Now, for all u bahus, first give and give some more and only then wait and see, the results are usually rewarding.
I agree with your Surya.
Although financial independence may free some women to divorce and escape from abusive relationship like it rightly should, there are other cultural norms that has a tighter hold between desi wedded folks.
We as desi children are told ..almost indoctrinated that our marriage when we grow up is to one and only one person and its for a lifetime. No try before commit. This is the cultural norm most of us are used to. Yes.. even today for the most part. I understand there are few who have run away from this. But for the most part, desi middle class morality still exists in India.
This psychological commitment and expectation makes us to work problems through even if we may not otherwise be compatible in personalities. Cat person vs dog person kind of trivial irrelevant to life crappola not withstanding. We generally do not pack our bags and quit at the first sign marital problems. We are in a way indoctrinated culturally to see what is really important in life and in marriage.
Are all desi people like that? Hell no! but for many middle class with desi middle class morality that is the norm and that helps with staying together as married couples..even today.
I don’t understand your obsession with “high divorce rates of the west”. You clearly didn’t search beyond USA or Great Britain. I come from an EU country with fairly low divorce rate and high family values, also a quite conservative place you can say. Still, It’s better for you to put everyone in one basket and judge on the basis of the limited places you had a chance to vaguely get to know. When will you finally shed that ignorance which makes you feel that Indians are the most commited, loyal and family oriented people on earth?
Or is it just that you are jealous of people who have both stable families and happy not-arranged marriages? The comments on most of Sharell’s blogs suggest that many Indians have a really distorted image of “the west” and the outside-India world in general.
@Surya
I wasn’t talkin’ about statistics. To be very plain and to reveal what was going through my mind, I just meant that everyone is human and should be treated with dignity and respect…This ‘Cultural Superiority’ and nationalistic stuff is bad…and if you don’t know, it is the reason for so many wars, in our world.
Coming to the divorce statistics, it is true that India has less divorce..But, all the women are really enjoying their life? You might be happy living in Chicago, but do you know how many women are suppressed in India and can’t really express that to anyone?….That doesn’t mean I’m supporting divorce…and I’m not supporting the western/Eastern (Indian) culture — I’m not left or right wing, but ‘Center Forward’…What I would like to have, is a mix of both, which is easier said than done.
India is slowly developing, getting liberal and women are occupying high-profile jobs, etc etc…Did you know or have you heard about the latest divorce statistics from Bangalore?…If you get to know, compare it to the statistics 10/20 years back…and come back to me! Be it whatever, I’m all for a stable marriage…Divorce might be good/bad for the couple, but it is NEVER good for the kid. Got the hang of it?!?!…If not, go figure!
if any consolation to you, in general, ‘west’ in my mindset begins somewhere in Italy and ends in USA. Not necessarily lumping caucasian race ad hominem. Eastern Europe and south america are by and large excluded in this charaterization (of mine).My Romanian immigrant friend’s opinions reflect closely to that of my Indian friends. Also tobe fair,I can write volumes on ‘good things that are western’. The institution of Marriage is a chronically sick though.
@ shadow,
” you are jealous of people who have both stable families and happy not-arranged marriages?”
Thats stretching a bit too far and I must respond to that rather derogatory speculation.
Jealousy did u SAY? As to why? Is it because ‘non arranged marriages’ fall apart from one third to one half of them. Jealousy because, in spite of ‘love’ (marriages), extramarital ‘affairs’ flourish by millions. Jealousy because every fourth kid is raised in single parent family or living with a step parent? Jealousy because the separated woman (after a long relationship) is highly vulnerable and play into the hands of overindulgent drooling abusive men? Why do people say ‘i love you’ when they end tel conversations? They need the constat reinforcement, dont they.
Where did you get the idea that arranged marriage couples dont love eachother? If love is dearth in those marriages, say in case of Sharells in laws famiiy, how is that their family be so stealth in their relationships or in my parental househod. Our relationships are very strong rarely exressed. The ‘arrangement’ nowadays is invariably WITH the valid consent of the both people involved, force is out thru the window long time ago.
” Indians are the most commited, loyal and family oriented people on earth?”
the affirmation is not aullding to white vs indian. Its ‘western west’ vs india. Stemming from the huge discrepancy in numbers..BTW, I met american elderly folks who were happily married for 50 yrs. If you look at vice president Al Gore’s recent divorce, after some 40 yrs of marriage, you get desperate. I like french and their movies, but they have a dismal marriage institution out there.On record, I support love marriages heartily.
” Indians have a really distorted image of “the west”…
Sharrell lived there, what a paltry 4 or 5 years, whereas we (indians) lived in “west’ way too longer than that, how can we distort west’s image, i cannot fathom. .. There is a woman who lived in Bengaluru for 3 months, ran a blog, and fled to USA disgusted and disillusioned, is she an expert now?
““…The mothers usually have unfulfilled relationships with their husbands…”
Incredible assertions here. So what now again? The maternal love for children is an extended version of Oedipus complex then? Is that it then?WOW, folks. Sigmund Freud must be turning in his grave…well no thanks, I can say, well thats definitely is not the case in Indian setting.
@surya
I seriously pity you. If you try to represent the whole country and its culture, better bite the bullet. Admit that in indian marriages and especially in arranged marriages the “living together”*no of years is mere life sentence for the victims. Like stockholm syndrome they pretend to like and love the sentence your parents had decided for you. Your arranged married life is a compromise.
Casting aspersion on open and broad minded west is mere shame and it is juz showcasing our country’s ill fate and chavinism.
Dont talk bad about people who play role of stepdad or stepmother and pretend to be representative of the kids. There is nothing wrong in leaving your spouse or galfriend or boyfriend if you know for sure it is not going to workout.
I personally known disturbed kids in Indian houses because their mom, dad and in-laws fight all time in front of kids without thinking about them or their future, but dont divorce instead make their life as well as life of others who live around them.
http://meandmythinkingcap.blogspot.com/2010/11/indian-marriage-and-roles-played.html
” almost all indian guys never get along with their dad ”
that is dumb. They are close to moms and maintain a distance with dads.Hmmm.. however their love for dads, being the sole bread winner, ie unquestionable.
@surya
All this maturity stems from the fact that I have seen both sides of the coin. I have colleagues who endlessly bicker about their MILs and even their husbands. As per them, the MIL doesnt think of them like their daughter and hence the whole issue of “a wicked MIL”…They may be right, but then again I just know what my friends say..I just have one part of the story and I feel its not right to judge anyone dat way. All those who are bickering here, if only we could have the other side of the story too…lol I guess, Sharell, lets give the MILs a fair chance too
” I personally known ”
this is the precise reason why I talked about statistics whilst responding to Prashant’s post, eventhough I do hate numbers and statistics myself. People assert their opinions as facts. Most are oblivious of the difference between the 2. Dont get me wrong.I have tens of thousands of lines to write on ‘whats good about west and america in particular’. By way of my profession I deal with peoples llives and emotions on a daily basis. Once we start talking my clients open up and pour out. I have respect for them empathise with them, and am not at all taking a swipe at westerners. I lived in Germany and England as well.
“years is mere life sentence for the victims”
Your personal experience may not be the typical indian experience.My point is the institution of marriage is strong in India ‘ not out of necessity but out of the choices of the 2 individuals involved make to keep it intact’ after the wedding. Brushing aside a very mature tenet as mere financial dependence on the part of the of the woman classifies ignorance. Only finances? What about the man then, he is employed and financialy independent, he could have walked away from his wife, couldnt he? what about women who make a good living on their part.They can say to hell with you. Iam not saying Indian marriages are ‘ superior’. Bickerings, fights go on. An unhappy couple cannot make and raise a happy extended family FYI. The Indian family is strong from living in 5 nations i can say that. A fact not an opinion.Jayesh said his sister went to chennai, not after fighting with everyone bbut with the blessings and consent of one and all. Such examples are many, too many……
” I seriously pity you”…..
Save it, dude, no thanks. I am not looking for a shoulder.Iam a happy family man. I not only love my nuclear family, I do love my extended family and inlaws as well. …………..
” Your arranged married life is a compromise”..”There is nothing wrong in leaving your spouse or galfriend or boyfriend if you know for sure it is not going to workout”………………
BTW, I dont oppose love marriages. I didnt say mine was a forced one. If shacking up and dating herald a fullfilled marriage, literally every marriage in this part of the world should last a lifetime. Why isnt the case, any explanation anybody? Why is everyone is dodging the bullet? Why these love marriages fall apart in such astonishingly high numbers? People in ‘live in relationships’ forever postone wedding, what are they waiting for, how long is good enough? ………….
” Dont talk bad about people who play role of stepdad or stepmother ”
Mere assumptions and speculations. Biolgic parent is preferable to step parent according to child psychologists.The childhood deliquencies, aberrations, substance abuse, high school drop out, teen pregnancy, promiscuity so forth cases have a strong origin in (parental) failed marriages……
” I personally known disturbed kids in Indian houses ”
numbers are important. all kinds of peope exist in every laand, whilst making a judgement, we go by the pedominance of a trait, not mere presence of it. Talk of political corruption.oh ya, then you are talking. India rules there .But dont talk light about marriage and family relationships.
Wow.Now u r a shrink who lives in Chicago with ample experience in handling couples across countries . Either u need a shrink or ur patients/clients need a new shrink.
“Sharrell lived there, what a paltry 4 or 5 years, whereas we (indians) lived in “west’ way too longer than that, how can we distort west’s image, i cannot fathom. .. There is a woman who lived in Bengaluru for 3 months, ran a blog, and fled to USA disgusted and disillusioned, is she an expert now?”
“But dont talk light about marriage and family relationships.”
Ppl like u are the ones who need serious makeover . Read urself all ur questions sound so juvenile.
If Indians couple dont divorce and keep hating each other and express their disappointment and frustration by daily fights in front of kids and financially independent husbands spend their time in office pretending to work – rather the actual reason is not being able to handle the bickering at home, yes tht lays strong foundation for indian kids and gives a healthy relationship. And Indians do not run away from responsibilities because taht is what they are used to and trained to?Not to confront and solve issues instead runaway and avoid as much as possible? And you talk about facts and not ur mere opinions.
http://meandmythinkingcap.blogspot.com/2010/11/indian-marriage-and-roles-played.html
Hi Kate,
I hope all goes well. I haven’t read of many gori women in relationships with Punjabi men so I had to comment and say hi! My boyfriend of 4 years is Punjabi and he lives with his mum so I had the privilege of meeting her early in our relationship. Now, however, my lovely Punjabi man has decided he wants to move to Australia, Melbourne to be precise. You should get in touch with Grace who also lives in Melbourne and is engaged to a Sikh man. Her blog is over at BadBhahbi.com. Don’t worry, you are not alone!
xx MaybeBhahbi
hey, ive lived in mumbai since june n i have indian husband here n i didnt have any problem with my mum in low. she is nice n caring n dont try put her nose in our life. BUT this wht is between her n her son is SPECIAL
before he left house n move to live with me he was cooking his best dishes for a week n of course she was crying that he gonna leave home (even we live maybe 5 min by car from her;)) twice a week she sends him indian dishes, cuz she knows that i cant cook all this
so yeee… whtever my husband does she always finds explanation;)
Poor Mother, she herself not receiving love, how can one take her hyper-affection as rudeness. she only want something to change but the tone is definitely wrong I agree. she needs help.
Morally Courageous women who set their goal to uplift a previously unknown husband, children needs to be taken care.
when the husband not treating his spouse as a human with emotions the ire turns on the children as an easy prey.
Here is some interesting statistics. Albeit this is by religion in the US
New Marriage and Divorce Statistics Released
http://www.barna.org/family-kids-articles/42-new-marriage-and-divorce-statistics-released
Divorce Among Adults Who Have Been Married
White 32%
Afric-Am 36%
Hispanic 31%
Asian 20%
See Asian there. Its the lowest. Although Asian there could be all Asians, there is a pattern. Mind you, these are folks who are living in the US. So they may not have the kind of social pressure than they may have in their home country.
@ surya… again, no point in explaining…
if for you ‘west starts in italy and ends in usa’ – man, i pity your knowledge about the world… who told you that east and south europe or south america are anything like india? these countries (in europe) are in EU for many years and they are absolutely NOTHING like india and NOTHING like pseudo-after-communist-russian-friends. the same with south america, these people are not some taco-burrito-eaters. get to know the world before you come up with such a childish idea.
and what does it have to do with some girl who was in bangalore for a few months and decided to come back? did it hurt you or what, that she didn’t like it?
swallow it, that india is not the centre of the world, no country is for that matter. have some objectivity when judging your own motherland. it opens the eyes for certain things.
and yes, there is nothing wrong in breaking up a relationship when you see it is going nowhere. and there is nothing wrong in considering love as the most important factor in partner selection. and it is incredibly cool to be able to choose your life partner without your parents blessings. yes, these are things people like you, are jealous about, if you weren’t, you wouldn’t pay so much attention to argue about it.
Love in arranged marriage, are you kidding me? If you mean mere tolerance of each other’s presence and a wife telling ‘yes’ to everything that husband asks for (or his mom). very funny, clearly you didn’t experience true love.
and even if people like coolblogger keep on giving you thousands of examples to show you how blind you are, you will try to oppose every time, because you are JEALOUS – period!
@shadow – thanks so much. You cant never bring these kind of cocooned minds to light. U can wake a sleeping person not the one who is pretending to be asleep. As rightly said, the “J-factor” is the one making them to go all lengths to lie and argue and talk ill about people who marry for love and live a independent life and strive to give their kids better future and values rather than mere taboo and bond for the selfish souls.
@Manny- Let me try something here. You can never compare the citizens [caucasians and afroamericans] with immigrant races in US. Hispanic – many are non-documented and if you consider asians either they are in dependent visa or the spouses arent tht well educated and even if they are, the degrees from their homecountry doesnt sell much. Whether they want it or not, they are forced to stay together and be a mere cook-at-home and traditional “yes-woman”.
And many still try to stay under one roof for insurance and other stuffs – not much different from the status in India except – here the reason differs.
And when they have proper oppurtunites – even the first-generation ones dont hesitate any second to say good-bye when things dont work out.
Surya is Right . Coolblogger is overenthuasistic in bringing down and stereoptyping INDIAN ARRANGED marriages.
To say that all Indian women in arranged marriages are suffering like HELL is a very ignorant and disgusting statement.
There are really some shortcoming in the process of Arranged Marriage specially the DOWRY Part.. but people , who are aware of real development in the societ know well that times are changing .. on the Factors such as Caste and Dowry..
Many cousins of mine have had love marriage and same numbers of tghem had Arranged one .. and when Today I see them , I cant really tell the difference in affection , respect and liberty of “ARRANGED COUPLE” and “LOVE COUPLE” ..
All my older generation people had Arranged Marriage and they love each other with enormous respect..
The thing I dont understand is that people visulaise arranged marriage in a very typical way like following..
1. She would have to do house chores essentially
2.She wont be able to do JOB.
3.She will be treated badly by In-laws
4.She wont have any say in deciding the family matters
5.She wont get any real affection from their husband..
all of above may/may not a part of any marriage LOVE or Arranged but not FIRM CHARACTERISTIC of any marrige ..love or arranged..
Moreover if people were so unhappy about love marriages , the system wouldnt have been in existence for so long..
But the fact is that now-a-days Arranged marriages are not done only in same caste.. Intercaste marriages are also beeing arranged ..
Also modern times arranged marriages are very different from the past ones when bride-groom could see even the pic of their spouses..
In present arranged marriages are like the Group FAMILY-Dating where Guys/Gals are given enough time to decide the best for each other..
P.S. If two people are in love they should marry each other.
@Mohit
Arranged – You marry someone for some other than yourself and accept the fate of life.
Love – You marry the one you want to spend the life together and you are doing it for yourself because you want to.
Life isn’t a business or a debt . Just because ur mom fed u when u were young doesnt mean tht you need to desert your wife and kid and repay her back and make ur wife as well to do same chores. She did her job as a mom and you should allow your wife to fulfill her duty to her kid. Instead if spends time in giving massage to ur mom and spend whole day in kitchen to cook for ur dad’s fluctuating palate and run around and dance around to make ur parents happy, when does she get time to do her duties for her kid??
You have a responsibility as a dad for your dependent kid(s). Financially u can help ur parents, marrying the spouse chosen by them just to make them happy to me sounds bull.
I have heard from my friends saying “I maynt hve made my mom/dad happy by scoring state 1st or with hefty salary job or buying her/him a bungalow- atleast this I could do – give up my wishes and marry the gal chosen by them – I had told them whtever gal u look for I am ready just say when/then” – same from gals as well.
Does this make any sense to u? Is marriage a thing to sacrifice?http://meandmythinkingcap.blogspot.com/2010/11/indian-marriage-and-roles-played.html
Arranged – You marry someone for some other than yourself and accept the fate of life.
Love – You marry the one you want to spend the life together and you are doing it for yourself because you want to.
No What you say there “Arranged” should be “Forced”
Arranged goes like this: You are introduced by your parents after vetting the other guys family and upbringing and other information from people who knows the bloke. Is he a womanizer? Is he a drug addict? Is he a fraud? Does he treat women with respect? …etc etc…
Then the girl sees him and talks to him… for a short time and decides to accept the engagement with the intent to marry. Now they are free to date but not sleep together. They travel and they meet each others friends as fiance. It is courting. They either fall in love or at least infatuated with one another or realize its all a big mistake. This goes for anywhere between 6 months to a year. If you cannot decide by then then you are a loser. So most often they decide to get married after all their value system has already been established by their respective family. Then then get married.
So stop with the false projection and get to know what really happens with arranged marriages.
Manny
I give up. To all – well frogs, all the best. Sugarcoat all you want
No body forced u, you turned urself in and opted for this sentence and you are happy . Enjoy ur life without parole..
“Abou Ben Adhem” ..continue this legacy thatz how all losers in India get married. Your mommy will look for a bride for u and pick ur boxers to wear.
Bye all..Did i make ur cry? Run for ur mommy’s sari buddy, she will console u…
http://meandmythinkingcap.blogspot.com/2010/11/indian-marriage-and-roles-played.html
Here is the national hero – And every indian mommy’s dream son…
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/bangalore/Infosys-manager-confesses-to-killing-wife-held/articleshow/6308212.cms
Sometimes I wonder why you people are so defensive about arranged marriages. Nobody has to be that way for love marriages, since the concept of this one is clear and fair.
It is only obvious that there are less pretty, disguised matters in the idea of an arranged marriage, that you have so much need to tell the world how great it is.
Besides, come down to earth. Arranged marriage is in most cases exactly what you say it is not. And that too in so called ‘metros’ as you say, people have to blindly follow their parents’ wishes.
If you get out of this shell of self-glory, you will see how ridiculous and unacceptable arranged marriage can be, especially for a modern woman.
And please don’t say that times are changing. Today dowry = a car or a flat or furniture to the flat for the couple, dating time = a few coffee/lunch breaks in the city together, great match = horoscope and cash (obviously on girl’s family side), “dating period” = 3 months max.
This is real example btw, from Chennai. I can assure you it’s not a single case.
I agree.
To call how Aai and Baba behave with each other as ‘Stockholm Syndrome’ would be a bit insulting.
Arranged marriages, when forced, have their set of problems, but when, they happen as described by Manny, then I don’t think they would have so many compatibility issues.
Thing is, in India, there is social pressure to be married by a certain age. If you haven’t found your own love by then, you enter the ‘arranged marriage’ arena. Then, too, the sensible parents want a match compatible with their children.
‘Forced’ arranged marriages are wrong.
My dear coolblogger, if you want the Ultimate Mamma’s boy, Every Indian Mommy’s Dream Son and A National Hero of India, please google search on ‘SHIVAJI MAHARAJ’ and ‘JIJABAI.’
Also, google search ‘Mother India’ (The film) for The Ultimate Indian Mother.
@ Coolblogger
“Arranged – You marry someone for some other than yourself and accept the fate of life.
Love – You marry the one you want to spend the life together and you are doing it for yourself because you want to.”
————————————————————————————-
Can you please tell me the “SOURCE” of these definitions..
I can smell that you have had very bad effects and experience of arranged marriage either personally or have seen it closely in family or relatives.
But you dont have right to call all “Arranged Marriages” forced and call all the persons who did “Arrange Marriage” LOOSERS….
I dont know ,which state and city you live but the NARROW-MINDED definitions of Love and Arrange Marriages given by you is an indicator that who lives in a WELL.
I dont know why some Arundhati Roy types woman always try to portrait India and its tradition in a wrong way.
Arranged Marriages are just Marriages , why are you painting it in bad light ..as it is something like SATI PRATHA or DOWRY SYSTEM..
Whatever Manny has said about Arranged Marriages is true and you should judge on that definition ..
And everybody is free to make his/her own choices and views. I am all for Women empowerment and their liberty to make their choices of life.
Speaking of arranged marriage, Mohit, how are you going with sorting though all your replies? Have you narrowed it down yet?
IF you want the ultimate Momma’s boy. Check out Rahul Gandhi and his Eva Peron mother who feels her family and her son is entitled to the throne. What about that loser Rajeev Gandhi the Momma’s boy?
@Jayesh
This may shed more light about the mamaz boy.
http://www.ndtv.com/article/cities/she-ill-treated-my-parents-infosys-employee-tells-cops-44757
The assumptions made here that couples who opt into arranged marriages are forced or pressured into it is a forced one. When in reality, those of opt for this route of getting a spouse do so because they either failed in love or were incapable of finding a spouse for themselves.
India doesn’t have a dating culture hence, those who opt to find love for themselves have to face a lot of obstacles. For one, there aren’t enough platform for men and women to meet eligible singles, since genders are segregated in India in a way that doesn’t leave a lot of room for interaction. Second, neither men nor women are equipped with the skills of dating. Men for one, don’t know how to approach women without getting shot down. They don’t know what kind of women to approach and how to make that move. Women on the other hand, aren’t equipped to handle attention from men and to distinguish genuine men from the predators. Hence, they are either too eager or too aloof.
In such a dismal dating environment, arranged matches are often the only option for the lot of Indians.
I am not sure what you are asking exactly!
Whether Aai has a sari or whether she can console me?
Or your mum doesn’t have a sari?
Or she can’t console you?
My dear Coolblogger and Shadow, no one’s denying that arranged marriages have their fair share of limitations and disadvantages.
Marriage in Indian society has seen many changes from, child marriages, to forced arranged marriages to arranged marriages based on the girl’s and the boy’s decision.
While gandharva marriages (a type of love marriage) were also allowed in the ancient times, the system went out of use.
The arranged marriage system was primarily a way to ensure continuation of that sub-caste/caste/religion since an arranged marriage ensures that there would be a future generation, growing in a comfortable, loving environment.
The reason might be India’s turbulent history of invasions, rulers, religious domination and caste-based mindset.
Also, it tried to ensure a spouse/partner for every child compatible with the rest of the household.
The phenomenon of arranged marriage should be taken into consideration as a part of how the Indian society was, is and is evolving.
When you accuse that all people in arranged marriages to have a loveless marriage, I look at the marriages of my parents, my relatives and the parents of my friends. They do not seem to be ‘loveless’ as compared to those who have had love marriages, among my relatives, neighbours and friends as you accuse.
Whenever Baba does some chivalrous act, Aai still blushes like a new bride.
Most of the people you are accusing of
being ‘defensive’ have, forgive me if I am presuming too much, arranged marriages in their families, even their parents, in which they are very happy and satisfied.
So when coolblogger says that people in “your” arranged marriages seem to have some kind of ‘Stockholm’s Syndrome’ or the children have social/emotional defects, then it kind of implies that my parents have Stockholm’s Syndrome and I suffer from social/emotional defects and that tends to hurt a bit.
I agree, that arranged marriages, especially those of the past, since they didn’t take into account the girl’s and boy’s compatibility, do face a lot of problems but not all do.
Now, today, arranged marriage concept is evolving, more open than before.
As you put an example, my dear Shadow, of an acquaintance of yours in the City of Chennai, let me also put forward the example of my sister.
There was no dowry.
Their courtship lasted for one year.
They stayed in the same hostel.
They are in love.
Marriage according to their consent.
It depends now, on how educted the parents are and, more impotantly, how open-minded they are. (eg. Sharell’s in-laws are pretty-much open-minded as compared to their education. Then there are educated idiots out there, like you mentioned.)
Arranged marriages, when not forced, are actually very effective.
You must understand that society pressures to get married and have children is high and this mindset is not going to go so soon.
In the end I will say this:-
Arranged marriage is a social phenomenon which has been existence for many centuries and as such is not going to dissapear soon.
Except for forced, they are not so horrifying as you believe.
In a society where a marriage is considered the Union of two families rather than just two individuals, there will be an amount of parental influence, even in Love marriages.
Indian society is still evolving and only Time will show what changes it may bring.
Superb, Manny!
They take the cake!
When I put forward my um…. ‘candidate’, what I wanted to show that how some Indian mother-son relationships brought out the best in them.
It depends upon the nature of the mother and, more importantly, the son, to take the right choices, irrespective of whether the mum wants the wrong one.
When both are of understanding nature, then the mother-son bond can bring out the best in them as in my example.
And when the mother is also understanding and loving of the daughter-in-Law, then it brings the best in the entire relationship.
(eg. The Bad Bhabhi, Sharell Bhabhi, Aurora Vahini.)
Then they can be labelled as ‘Ultimate’, ‘A National Hero’ etc.
Otherwise, all hell can break loose!
Like Coolblogger’s example of idiots.
My eldest sister in law got married off when she was only 16 (almost 24 years ago) because a suitable man had made himself known. He’s five years older than her. She had a baby within a year of marriage. It was a HUGE adjustment for her (and apparently she went really quiet for couple of years, which is very unlike her. So she must’ve been quite distressed). Now, looking at her, there is no hint that her married life started like that. There is very obvious love and affection between her and her husband, which has developed over the years. They look happier and more in love than many people I know. They also have two well brought up sons (one of which I must admit is studying to become an engineer… gulp!
), and a successful manufacturing business that they’ve built. So arranged marriages can have a positive outcome. Honestly, when they’re done in the right way (these days, with the couple having control over the decision), they do have their benefits. My youngest brother in law had an arranged marriage a couple of years ago, it was by the consent of he and his wife, and they spent quite a bit of time getting to know each other first. So far, so good. 
And yes, I do believe that they are now in love too…. he went to Dubai to work recently and she really missed him.
There is a lot of truth in what you say, especially about the lack of an appropriate dating space and no/scarce dating skills. That explains why there are pople who opt for an arranged marriage.
But as you mentioned, there is always a problem with “distinguishing genuine men from the predators” (I believe that has some equivalent for women too). So, when a marriage is arranged no one can really tell who gets the genuine one, and who gets the predator, because there is practically no chance to check that. Also assuming that bad men (and women) don’t get married to anyone at all is too naive.
@jayesh
- Here is my reply. I am a big gal and I dont run for my momz sari or chunni or her shoulder to cry like all the “HE-BOY”s here. I am responsible for my life and I chose and choose to be what I am. And once my babies get wings, I am going to let them free and watch them fall and learn to fly on their own.
@Abdullah
- I second your thoughts.
@Mohit
- thnx for comparing me to icons. How does it matter where I live or where I come from or what religion I follow or what language I speak? I stand by what I beleive in. If you feel that I am ridiculing all mama-boys, sorry I cant help it. You are free to laugh at – my individuality or my out-of-box thinking as per you.
I am pretty sure that these kind of sugarcoating happened for riots against SATI as well.
@Sharell
- No offense meant. Your SIL got married when she was 16 and had a baby when she was 17? I guess you are in my side now
http://meandmythinkingcap.blogspot.com/2010/11/indian-marriage-and-roles-played.html
Life was different back then, times have changed. I don’t agree with forcing someone to get married so young (despite the potential for happy outcome) but I have nothing against arranged marriages where both parties are willing and agreeable. And if they can find someone compatible. Arranged marriage suits some people, others it doesn’t. My husband for example was always “too out of the box” to have an arranged marriage. Due to his life experience, there’s no way he would have much in common with a simple girl from Orissa. So there was never much potential for him to have an arranged marriage, and he never wanted one (although he did give in to his mother and go to a couple of “meetings”, he left saying no way). His second youngest brother had a love marriage with a Maharastran (before I came along). But his youngest brother is more traditional, and wanted an arranged marriage. He got a good match… a girl from Orissa, but university educated fashion designer who was also born in Mumbai (the brother is an interior designer, born in Mumbai). What’s probably shocking to people is that from what I know and have seen of arranged marriages, if I was Indian I may have even happily said yes to one IF and only IF the circumstances were right. I would need to have a lot of say in the matter, and the expectations would also need to be clear and agreed upon. (People in the west often ask their friends or family members to “find them someone” or “set them up with someone” on a date….who they may or may not like and agree to see again. Arranged marriage is just on a bigger scale).
Oh boy, Lady, replying to silly comments like this makes me feel more silly, but I like it!
Hmmmm…. lets see….
So, if your children go through a rough patch and come to you to seek a hug and a word of comfort and advice all you are going to say, “No way! I taught you to fly and you managed to fly from here, now fly away!”
Interesting….
Not that I wouldn’t solve my problems on my own, but I do like to get a hug from my sari-wearing Aai when I am in a rough patch….
Makes me feel loved and I get a feeling that there’s someone who will be with me and won’t judge me even if my decision, taken by myself, turns out to be wrong.
I do share a deep bond with her and will fly away from her nest soon enough, but I hope she will remain a source of comfort and advice that Wisdom and Experience brings.
Please clarify more as to whether that’s what you meant….
P. S.:- Is my sister’s marriage, as I have described, can be described as ‘sugarcoating?’
THANK YOU so much Jiju for saying no to those marriage requests!
And being smart enough to propose to Sharell at the right moment!
Otherwise, I wouldn’t have got such a wonderful Bhabhi (to pull her legs)!
@Sharell,
Honestly, I do have to agree with some thoughts of urs, Manny and Adbullah and little bit of Mohit.
But comparing divorce rate and insulting the life as stepdad/stepmom and sugarcoating something which you had accepted as ur fate is wht bothers me.
Claimly that arranged marriages are better than love marriage is absolutely ridiculous.
It’s like IBM claiming tht no one could insert virus into their mainframe with Microsoft. Come on, who cares if calculator is attacked by virus? You dont give choice and freedom to the ladies in your house or allow them even to think aloud.
And instead of hanging ur head down in shame, ur praise urself too much and proclaim all loud that “divorce rates are low in India”, “Arranged marriages are the best”, “Indian joint family is the best”.
Come on!
http://meandmythinkingcap.blogspot.com/2010/11/indian-marriage-and-roles-played.html
Whatever floats your boat Hon!
If you found love on your own initiative Good on ya!
If your family introduces to the suitor and you both decide to get married based on infatuation..good on ya as well!
Just don’t be rainin on other peoples parade. Is all!
@ Sujata
“thnx for comparing me to icons. How does it matter where I live or where I come from or what religion I follow or what language I speak? I stand by what I beleive in. If you feel that I am ridiculing all mama-boys, sorry I cant help it. You are free to laugh at – my individuality or my out-of-box thinking as per you.”
————————————————————————————-
Arundhati is definitely an ICON for those who want to get famous by shortest path of so called “OUT OF BOX” thinking by involving in a protest for GAY RIGHTS and giving controversial statement against India on KASHMIR ISSUE.If you are really happy for beeing compared to Arundahti then you owe me a BIG THANK.
It does matter to know your city , language ,religion to know what kind of individual you are because world and particular India is so varied in culture and personal experience that it simplify the process of knowing each other and responding to their views.
I dont care if you ridicule Mama’s Boy and Papa’s Boy and Chacha’s boy or A — Z’ Boy..
but I object when you call all persons LOOSERS just because they did Arranged Marriage. By this definition All the Great Personality of India will be in that category i.e. LOOSERS..
Your Individuality or your “out of the box” thinking is nothing special for me to laugh about.Its just your thinking and as an individual you should stand by what you believe , BUT you have no right to complain when you have abused a larger section of Society already in a big way..
You may be very succesfull individual in your life with this kind of thinking but I have seen many more succefull Individual women who had “in the box” thinking with arranged marriage…
Hail India …
@ Sujata
““divorce rates are low in India”, “Arranged marriages are the best”, “Indian joint family is the best”.
————————————————————————————-
Divorce rate is nothing to do with Arranged marriages.
Saudi has mostly arraged marriage but has the biggest divorce rate in the world. Surprise ?? I also was..!!
@ Sharell
“Speaking of arranged marriage, Mohit, how are you going with sorting though all your replies? Have you narrowed it down yet?
————————————————————————————
Didnt get you. Are you talking about my marriage ..??? yeah I got one
While searching for a one , I got one through orkut..
and 7TH feb is D-DAY.. 
..
Yes, I was talking about your marriage!! Wow, that’s exciting news. Congratulations. Enjoy your last few months of “freedom”.
@mohit. FYI , I do protest for GAY rights. But I didnt know that it is one of the shortcuts to fame or whtever. I stand by what I said.
http://meandmythinkingcap.blogspot.com/2010/09/dont-ask-dont-tell.html
And buddy , victory claim with divorce rates linking arranged marriage-bonfire wasnt started by me. It was from one of ur clan.
I am a tamilian , married with two lovely twins in Chicago and a hindu but yet I do celebrate christmas with christmas tree, and easter with easterbunnyhunt and halloween and all for my kids.
And all the best for ur wedding! So, u picked ur spouse from facebook.. Cool!
Dude,
you are making me Barf…seriously creepy.
No offense.
Mohit,
very well. congrats firstly.
Lets see. Hmmm… made the big decision, eh? Man you got yourself into whole lot of trouble now, Curtains on your Golden era then for you bro. Poor guy……
Nowadays, I am not taking much offence!
Don’t jump to ‘unclean’ thoughts, man….
Just kidding around here!
I am a bit too hyperactive for my own good, sometimes!
CONGRATULATIONS, Mohit!
So, when’s the Bachelor party?
Should we arrange it for you on your blog?
What’s with Feb 7, anyway?
My sister got married on that day, last year.
Two of my friends (including you – three) are getting married this year!
Some Strong Shubh Muhurat?
I see the Indian mother and son topic being left very far behind on this thread
I don’t live in India, and I have been there only once but I have a very large circle of Indian friends in London. Before I started dating my (Indian) boyfriend I knew little about arranged marriages. I don’t trust statistics about Indian/Western divorce rates – as has been mentioned on this blog by others there are many reasons why there is such a discrepancy which doesn’t necessarily speak to India’s advantage. Between me and my boyfriend we have about 30 close-ish Indian friends, most of them married through arranged marriages, but some chose love marriages. Honestly, at least from the outside arranged marriages don’t seem any happier or unhappier than the non-arranged ones. Also a few of my boyfriend’s friends are divorced. The official divorce stats don’t differentiate among various categories but from what I can see – city born very highly educated and well off Indians have no hesitation these days about divorcing when the marriage doesn’t work out.
If I was born into a culture of arranged marriages I wouldn’t have a problem with my family taking a part in it, though I would also look for the right person myself. Why not have the extra option?
The readers should not go away thinking that Indians are close minded in reference to love and romance, far from that since ancient times they thoroughly experimented and researched this area of human nature unashamedly. Read if you are an Indophile.
Scene One: A noble king gallops into a nearby forest hunting and instead of finding a deer he was looking for, he stumbles upon a damsel living in an ashram run by a sage. They fall in love and he promises to return later to take her to his kingdom and make her the queen. Because of a curse (shaap) by an irate maharishi, he develops amnesia and forgets about her. After some 9yrs he returns to the forest, now this time he sees a brave boy playing with lions. Amazed, the king confronts the boy, who replies that his mom is Sakuntala and dad is Dushyanta. Immediately the king remembers (by now the amnesia spell is lifted) his lover from the ashram. He fetches her with the help of his son and they all go back to the palace and live happily ever after. The boys name is BHARAT. That’s the first chapter of greatest indian epic Mahabharata, narrated eloquently by Sanskrit dramatist Kalidasa. FYI indians call their land as Bharat.
Scene 2. Krishna awaits in a garden for Rukmini’s arrival. The princess sneaks out of her dad’s palace and speeds away in the chariot with the perfect yogi Krishna and they marry against the wishes of her dad.
Scene 3: A princess enter with a garland in her hands and walks around a splendid and well decorated hall full of young men. There she inspects, interviews all suitors who have assembled there to seek her hand in matrimony and she even watches them exhibiting their skills and strengths. She garlands the man she approves. The marriage takes place soon after. That is called swayam vara, translates something like- self chosen husband. Please google any of those above words you will come across some fine, eloquent explanations.
Still not convinced? Google Kamasutra and Khajuraho… the land of yoga had explored all aspects of human nature…(part 1)
After thus researching and taking love and romance to dizzying heights, the wiser and older men felt the masses may become beasts and the land might lose order. They KNEW what was going on in the neighborhood. Europe served a stark deterrent example for Indians, wherein for hundreds of years that kind of chaos and lawlessness was the horrific norm that era. Sadly up until the times of Voltaire (google Candide). So then the elders put down some societal ‘norms’ like avoiding premarietal dating (read sex) to prevent out of wedlock births. There were no pills, as a result desperate girls resorted to abortions and were dying from complications. Then a practice of vetting process of suitors took shape. Thorough enquiries about suitors was made mandatory prerequisite to prevent far off predators scheming to devilish ways of polygamy and cheating. Elders were required to giving testimonials about the prospective grooms. Desire to retain family wealth within the family entered the picture; relatives are encouraged to marry within the family. Finally a thousand years of brutal invasions and partial occupation eroded the pride and order. Girls were married off very young gage to prevent abductions by muslim invaders.
How many of you have even heard about kanya sulkam? Means, Bridegroom paying off bride’s parents, in other words – a reversal of dowry? That was the pride of place a woman held in good old days ! The ‘dowry’ evil entered indian scene only in recent hard times, after the invasions and occupations made them poorer, fragmented and demoralized. Thankfully currently the devil is frontally attacked and hopefully it will disappear soon.
My comments have invited ire from some. OK. Lets see. My comment of ‘Sharells paltry 4 or 5 years’ was a direct and specific response to her observation: “mothers usually have unfulfilled relationships with their husbands. As a result, they direct all the love and care that would usually be in a marriage towards their sons ”. Sharell portrayed here an Oedipus complex (google) in reverse. It is one thing to write about leaky roofs, scams, chai wallahs etc etc. But then it is a different trajectory one is claiming to orbit in when one takes up the onerous task of explaining, ‘why moms eat at the end’, why MILs take such close interest in son’s affairs, ‘why bahus don’t talk loudly in front of FILs’ etc etc. In my assessment moms (and dads) love both sons and daughters in equal measure. I brought up the issue of divorce as it is appropriate and relevant to do so. I can’t talk of global warming when marriage is the topic, can I? Then I brought up step parent issue, not to ridicule them or take a cheap shot at them, but instead kept child’s mental health in the back of my mind. I am no shrink, it needs lot of patience and lots listening/talking to do to be one, besides why would I settle for less? Shanti. (part2)
This joke was in the newspaper today:
Husband and wife had a tiff. Wife called up her mum and said “He fought with me again, I’m coming to live with you.” Mum said “nahin beti nahin, he must pay for his mistake…. I am coming to stay with you.”
True. That sort of thing happens sometimes, where either of the spouses have some personaity disorders, only to be found after the wedding. However, I don’t think Indian style ‘love marriages’ would help a big deal here. From what I have observed, the dating periods are generally short, intimacy is limited and the kind of social/peer support that exists in western dating scenario is pretty much non-existent in India. Also, Indian women (and men) tend to have limited and late dating experiences, which might not help hone their intuition to spot a predator (especially if he has an attractive personality and good looks).
On the whole, I think if a good platform exists for dating as in the Eurocentric world, there is no good reason why one would consider an arranged marriage. If however, the live in a country like India, arranged marriage might be an option.
good one i like it on this sunday morn. Hope he wont invite his mom now…LOL
Hey! I am in blue!
YaaaaaaY!
I just realize that this can also apply to a mother-daughter relationship in Indian culture (at least for me).
A lot of Indian girls thought I was lucky growing up b/c my mom let me date, but I had to strictly date Indians only. AND, she had to control the show to every detail. Looking back, she acted no different towards my exes than a mother-in-law meddling with her son’s marriage. My mom and Indian ex were competing with each other over control and who had the upper hand. My Indian ex got fed up with my mom’s intrusive behavior and broke up with me. He couldn’t take it anymore. Everyone needs their space and privacy. I know Indian moms care for their kids, but there’s a fine line that needs to be drawn.
When I would try to confront my mom’s unhealthy behavior, she would just say “You should be happy that I let you date and talk to boys. Other Indian moms don’t!”
Someone mentioned that an intrusive mom that’s too enmeshed with her child may be strugging with her own marriage. In my mom’s case, that was true. She feels powerless in her marriage, so what better way to gain power by involving herself in mine? I have given her advice by maybe getting hobbies or spending time with her friends if she feels lonely. I can’t be with my mom all of the time obviously.
Has any other Indian woman gone through something similar? And, is it really that rare for Indian parents to let their adult children date? My mom always made friends with parents who were extremely conservative and rigid towards their kids. That way she could tell me and brag “Look how modern I am. I let you do these things, but Savita auntie doesn’t let her daughter talk to boys or show her legs.”
“Divorce might be good/bad for the couple, but it is NEVER good for the kid. Got the hang of it?!?!…”
It’s good for the kid, if the marriage is causing some harm to the child. For example, the parent is abusive to the child and will not change, the child has to witness domestic abuse situations, etc.
Keeping this kind of marriage together for the child isn’t healthy for the child’s development at all.
@Priya, who said how we women don’t have to deal with feeling stuck between a parent and a spouse. At least I think that’s what you said, unless I misunderstood.
I definitely felt stuck in between my ex and mom. She would say bad things about him to me, and he would say bad things about her to me. It was a horrible feeling. Our break-up was actually mutual, because we both couldn’t take it. . Looking back, it happened for the better. He wasn’t the right person for me anyway. My mom was right with her intuition on him not being so nice.
@Abdullah-Your point about Indian men lacking dating skills made me wonder. Maybe that’s why I dealt with some odd questions on the first few dates.For example, asking about exes, one’s sexual past and pressuring someone to drink more than they want are big no-no’s in the American dating scene. With Indian men, all of these bloopers came up. It made me think, “Don’t they know it makes a bad impression to talk about this stuff on the first few dates?” Then again, Indian culture and Indian parents don’t teach you proper dating etiquette.
So arranged marriages are not that great.
But what about Mail Order Catalog Brides from Eastern “Western Women” type wedding thingi?
@Indian Woman
I agree, but I was only imagining the scenario, where the couple has only some misunderstandings and fights, which are common and natural. In that case, it’s better to stay put and look after the child’s interests.
That is even more stupid. Catalogue thing is probably without CV-kinda matching, so it’s purely about cash (+ the guy’s desperation).
Blue is my fav color..
what about Blue Buggatiii ??
Taare Zameedn Par – Maa
When U feel U R alone in the Crowd, When U Think No 1 can Understand U, When UR love is rejected by others, & when U hate UR Life, Just Close UR eyes, & see, Her face who Loves U more than any 1 else, Who Care 4 U in loneleness, & dies when U cry. She is no 1, But UR Sweet Loving Mother. Love UR Mom First.
Simone,
Yours is a very well thought out and written post. And Im glad to read some discussion on this issue in the context of the DIL ‘getting affected’ by it. I am an Indian wife of a man belonging to a different culture in my own country. I am unable to adjust with my MIL. I cannot for the life of me imagine how a white woman would do so.
I was brought up in a liberal modern household in a very close knit nuclear family. My MIL is a working woman. Yet, she displays characteristics which are extremely difficult to be identified as ‘educated.’ I came across this post by accident as I was actually looking for ways to vent out my rantings about her. But surprisingly i found an intelligent discussion on the topic.
My hubby tries very hard to understand my problems with my MIL and also supports me fully. Nevertheless, in my country, and around me, no one has yet considered how it is ‘affecting’ the DIL. The common understanding is that, the MIL is unavoidable, an integral part of the family,all women have had to go through this drama in life, and that a DIL has to learn to live with whatever problems arise with the MIL. But you know what, not all can, I cannot. Not just because of the way I was brought up, but also because I am a private person and have never allowed anybody’s interference in my life without my consent.
The problem with my MIL is that she has a set way of thinking and a very very limited one at that. Other than this, because of her own unfulfilled married relationship she has made my husband her substitute husband. Add to it, she has some maturity problems which in my opinion verge on being psychologically abnormal, for example, she has a mix of feelings that she seems unable to get rid of. How can I put this the best way possible, she feels things she doesn’t understand, and doesn’t know what to do about, because of her unfulfilled relationship with her husband. And my husband ended up being at the receiving end of these strange mixture of unexpressed, un-understandable feelings that my MIL has. SInce she has maturity issues, she makes tongue in cheek remarks about my parents and sibling, and these comments are always disrespectful, often to an unbearable extent.
Let me give you an example of her immaturity, she expects me to call her daily as a rule. This is something my husband has been following religiously. Now I don’t do that, because I cannot talk to someone daily as a rule. Whenever its up to me I make sure to talk to her once in 3 days. But since I have not been calling her up daily, she likes to express her displeasure by being mean to me about something else. And doing it indirectly so that I cannot confront her about anything. Its a taunt-game. And even if I were to confront her, its just not possible to get through to her through logic or rationale.
Well I tried not to sound like Im complaining but I’m afraid thats exactly what I’m sounding like. Nevertheless I don’t think I have come across a healthy discussion like this of such a troubling issue. And I’m glad to see that women ( & men) are trying to find a solution to it rather than helplessly believing that this problem has no solution at all and going on endless rants about how much they hate their MILs.
The most common problems discussed on this page are daily issues that are supposed to taken for granted in India and learnt to be lived with. Along with these, I have some more unique problems, probbably unique to my MIL and slightly more serious, or maybe just to me. Now these insulting taunts at my family, her strange mix of emotions that are messing with her head(and mine), her intrusions and her demand to be loved and treated like i do my mother inspire very negative emotions for her inside me. ANd it also affects me badly. for example, I don’t enjoy cooking when she’s around and for a couple of weeks after she’s gone.
I do hope I find a solution to this, though at this juncture I don’t know what it is, as I’m very afraid that I will not be able to cope with her interference when we have children. My wedding was an unpleasant experience I would like to forget, for whatever reasons that maybe small for some but affected me greatly. I don’t want the bringing up of my children, which will not be of a short 2 day duration like my wedding, to be an unpleasant album that I would like to shut and not look at again. I don’t want these things to affect the quality of my life. And yet they are.
I understand all the reasons stated and discussed about why the nature of Indian mother-son relationship is the way it is. But I do not understand why a woman should harbour unhealthy feelings for her sons, which i have come to believe is the case with mothers of sons. It may be more so in India, but is not limited to this country. I don’t understand why the mother should become toxic to her son’s life, always wanting and demanding and only conditionally giving.
Also, why do women feel the need to be poisonous to other women.Why do they feel that the only way they can exert control is by making the opposite person feel small and hurt. I believe that a woman really should “act like a lady, and think like a man.”
And people should really stop giving the non-sense about ‘saas bhi kabhi bahu thi’. I know this pattern is repetitive, but there Are exceptions. I know that every woman is going to deal with the same insecurities that any MIL today is dealing with, but the way of handling them will not necessarily be the same. But yes, if people are going to sit tight, refusing to acknowledge or discuss a solution to this problem then the chances of this issue being reiterative will increase two-fold.
Hi,
it’s worth noticing that nosy/obsessive/overwhelming mother-ni-laws are universal, so it’s not an exceptionally Indian problem. I’m expat in Italy, and Italian mothers are famous all over Europe for growing up ‘mammoni’, mama’s boys. If a wife is not comfortable, it’s up to husband, however, to mediate the situation. Why? Simply because he is the one who knows better his family and can choose the right words. A wife is always a ‘person from outside’. My Italian boyfriend understands that well, and, in the end, he is an independent person who keeps the family close, but not too close to stand between us in our relationship. I do the same role of mediator with my family.
All the best, and thanks for great blog, I find many things in common
Vlm
Hi Vlm, I’ve heard that Italian and Indian culture are similar in so many ways, so what you say isn’t surprising. Welcome to the blog! By the way, I’ve been to Italy. I thought it was the most beautiful country in Europe.
Hej Dana
thank you very much for your post. You wrote exactly what I had in my mind.
I live with an indian guy since one year (almost) but we are not married. We live in North Europe even if I´m from the South. I really love my boyfriend but the mother is always try to make us breaking up. I went to India to visit his family and all his father´s family accept me and they are really happy but his mother is always against and complaining about me. She also came to stay at our place for one an half month and the only thing she did was complaining and speak in front of me about me in her language, thinking that I could not understand. We fighted a lot because she is without any respect for me and she claims respect. She claims repsect for her culture but she doesn´t respect my culture at all. Every time I´m doing a constructive step toward her she makes a distructive one. Something I think it is hopeless trying to be want she wants, because anyway she will find something else to complain about, and she makes me just stressed. I was so stressed when she was at our place that I lost 6kg in less than one month (and I don´t need to lose weight). Now that she went back to India she wants that I speak with her every week but she never spoke with me during 50days. She speaks good english but she was always speaking her language not to let me understand.
I think that her problem is she is not happy with her marriage and she doesn´t like her husband´s family, now because they like me she doesn´t. Before going to India we were fine, we were speaking and everything looked ok. When I went for 15days the last week she started to complain a lot, for this I related it to the fact that her husband´s family acepted me.
Sometime I think I´ll not able to suffer this for too long and thinking to give up. She makes my boyfriend always sad and nervous (not with me) because she is keeping repeating the same things over and over.
In my opinion she is really egoist and she doesn´t even care about the happiness of her son, she cares only about her self.
This is a wonderful website, glad my search for fish recipes brought me here. I can relate as I was the “close friend” for several years before marrying my Indian husband. Similarly, there was a lot of negativity in the beginning due to not being Indian myself. Though, I find that anyone unfamiliar with a culture will rely on what is seen on tv or movies!
My MIL and husband talk a few times a day, sometimes she has a good idea, sometimes she makes many demands. Once we bickered for an hour on the need of an additional refrigerator to hold all the milk the baby will drink someday. But like Sharell said, sometimes you just forfeit the conversation and all is well. I still haven’t purchased the extra refrigerator.
Every Husaband Can Do What His Wife Wants, The Question Here is Whether It Is Applicable To Wife or Not?
Most of the case i have heard, wives complaint that after marriage husband should give priority to wife than mother and sisters, but they will wish that husbands should go well with her parent and sisters. How is this possible?
I see that all wives want their husbands to become a guardian to her parents, shouldering them and giving importance to them than his own family. This is possible as long as wives and their family don’t trouble husbands family
Also, husbands family they try to hold the son as hard as they can because they believe after marriage guy get changed by their wives. Don’t guys have their own brains to think?
Whatever the problem is it is only in the hands of Husbands to decide how to handle the problem. Sometime it needs cunning mind, sometimes forgiving mind, sometime easy going mind. sometimes beat it hard and break it. SO which one we need to follow depends on how mother, wife, in law and sisters behave.
Irrespective of who it is we have to beat them up if we really want a peaceful life, if nothing works out just leave everyone and run to the corner of this world where you can find peaceful living, life is after all only once.
I am married to a a Sri Lankan man. I am jamaican. We married in our 40s and he lived in the States since he was 15. To attract me he boasted of being western, modern and super self sufficient. I thought him a bit arrogant and ego eccentric but he is a kind man so I married him. In the 10 years of our marriage I discovered several things. 1. He is spoilt. Everything must go his way or he gets angry. 2. Nothing is ever his fault or just life. Someone is always to blame. Usually me or a subordinate. 3. Apart from his career, he is lazy as hell. To the point of it being like a desease. 4. He buys his way to affection even with strangers but resents spending money on me (except for food. He loves! Supermarkets). He believes he is above menial tasks like mowing the grass or washing the car. He is impatient with and roughs his female relatives, but willingly sends them money. He thinks he is the smarter than I am. He is not. He does not read and is not artistic or spiritual. In the 10 years of our marriage, I have found that he responds only to insults, threats and physical retribution from me. All of which I am excellent at as I am neither demure, petit, stupid or afraid of him. We do not fight but I have demonstrated that when I say something I MEAN it and DO it and I have thrown things at him like a vacuum
cups, etc. To get him to take me seriously. He does not mind as long as he ducks! I wondered how a man who has lived outside his culture for so long could be so backward – until his mother came to live with us. She is pious. She is humble (her own words. Yeah. Right!) She is self absorbed. She is stingy and she has the ‘entitlement’ complex. She is quite an intelligent woman whose culture made her an utter fool. She has NEVER met someone like me. I baffle her. I intimidate her. I understand her. I care about her but I tell her straight that she is a pain in the ass. She can’t understand why her son loves me and takes my shit. I tell her she did not train him to be a husband and I do. I tell her she thinks he’s a boy, I think he should be a man. I tell her I chose him not he me, but I don’t NEED him to live, he needs me and he damned well knows it! I’m good to him, better than most wives, but I don’t take his crap for long. I’m honest. If I plan to rebel, I give him ample warning (which he ignores until he witnesses it), I am never spiteful but he knows…I CAN leave him! That usually straightens him up for a couple weeks. I now know why he is such a moron sometimes since living with his mother. She ruined him. He hates when I say it, but he is very much like her. Lazy, dependant and arrogant. I am suceeding in bashing those traits out of them both as I was brought up to detest lazyness and I am very like my Irish grandmother. Independent! But I don’t like having to be mother/teacher/wife to someone else’s son and I don’t like lecturing an 85 year old woman half my size. I know now why marriages are arranged in Asia. No one who knows those people would willingly marry one. The women are idiots and the men are weak and moronic. I love my husbands goodness but I despise his culture. It stinks. It creates weak, brutish men who despise women and make them doormats. In turn the women depend on the men for their very thoughts and being weak, the men can’t take the preasure of the women in their lives leaning on them and so they drink or abuse the woman who becomes even more cowed. It’s a vicious, stupid, centuries old cycle. It has ended in my house as I am NOT a woman to be messed with, but I truly pity Indian wives.
Beat them up? Run? How typical! Why not try GROWING UP? Idiot! If you tried to beat me, I’d kill you. Deader than dead. So would my brothers and uncles and cousins and father. You need a Caribbean wife to learn tobe a man!
Why does this post remind me of all the saas-bahu sagas on Hindi TV…..Guess everyone has problems when it comes to mother-in law and daughter inlaw relationships with the son stuck in between
Maybe cos I’m sure all those saas bahu dramas inspire the behaviour of some mothers in law! They spend enough time watching them.
My mother in law lives in the US but in another state from where we live. She was very against my husband marrying “a white girl.” This is where the problem lies. We have been married for 2 years (together for 5 yrs) and she has grown a *little* more accepting of me. It doesn’t help that we live in different states and don’t get to see her often. This distance delays our relationship growth. I think the only reason she has become more accepting (yet still apprehensive) is because we now have a child together. This is her grandchild and she takes much pride in her. The most bothersome thing to me is that she is closer to her other daughter-in-law. She is Indian. She is “everything an Indian mother wants” for her Indian son, basically. I find myself a bit envious of their close relationship. But there’s not much I can do other than try to nurture our own mother in law and daughter in law relationship. I have come to the conclusion and acceptance, that I will never be that perfect Indian daughter in law. But I can be the best ME that I can. It is a work in progress with my mother in law. I have hope that it will get better with time.